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Re: Politics

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:38 pm
by Anthony_Hugo98
FlippantCitizen wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:06 pm
DColeKC wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:54 am Don’t disagree and time will tell on how bans will work under Musk. I’m a fan of him and I know it’s unpopular to like mega rich people but I feel like he’s proven he’s not a selfish bastard and has good intentions across all his ventures.

The shadow banning and letting political biases impact business decisions in the past is what’s interesting to me. I’m not willing to say these issues changed the outcomes of elections but it’s hard to deny it wouldn’t have an impact at all. Silencing or suppressing one side of the political spectrum would surely do damage.
I'll say the part that gets me is the regularly scheduled calls between Twitter and FBI and other agencies suggesting what they should censor. It makes the Kara Swisher type argument of "oh well they're private companies so they can do what they want." Well if they are acting regularly on suggested actions from the government then that is pretty odious in my opinion.
Yeah I’m in the same boat, it’s one thing to have a political bias and censor that way with your own company. It changes the narrative completely when you’re abiding by instruction and requests from the FBI or any other government entity or an entity seeking to hold public office. Definitely not what we should be accepting of as a nation

Re: Politics

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:54 pm
by DColeKC
And I think we have seen that even the FBI can play favorites politically. Just a very slippery slope.

The fact media outlets are barely covering it shows they’re not interested in the truth or great journalism. The days of admitting they got something wrong are gone. Makes it very hard to trust anything from them which ruins the good journalism.

Re: Politics

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:56 pm
by grovester
Giant nothing-burger.

Trump's FBI doing their job informing media that Hunter's laptop was an election op and letting them choose what to do.

Here we are 2 years later and it's still a nothing burger.

Same old story, just tell the Ukrainians to announce an investigation, doesn't matter if they actually do it, just announce it!

Have the DOJ announce that there may be irregularities in the vote, doesn't matter if there were, just announce it!

Have twitter promote a story that they found Hunter's laptop and it full of really bad stuff! Doesn't matter if we can't tell which parts are true or false, just announce it!

What else was twitter doing?

De-platforming insurrectionists? Good!

Saving humanity from having to view Hunter's dick pix? Good!

/rant

Re: Politics

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:20 pm
by FlippantCitizen
I mean was Hunter's laptop a nothing-burger? Yeah, IMO it was because even though it did contain a lot of evidence of his influence peddling and soft corruption which I think is totally fair game for the media and voters to examine, a lot of that info behavior was already known about. I mean all political families engage in soft corruption at the very least and I suspect sometimes much more (what I would give to have Jared Kushner's hard drive to leak lol).

But it is definitely not a nothing-burger that the government is having weekly meeting suggesting what Twitter should be censoring. And yes I will use the word censor because they banned people for circulating this story, the kept it from being linked to even in private DMs. The "there there" of all of this is that that an article which was in the public interest got censored by Twitter at the behest of the FBI. Not anything to do with dick pics or other personal things on the laptop which no one in good faith is arguing should have been allowed to circulate.

Bureaucrats in the national security apparatus should not be colluding with media companies to suppress stories coming out of the the press. I don't have to like Rupert Murdoch or the NY Post to see that is a big problem and all indications from the Twitter files are that the rot went much much deeper than the laptop story. As a staunch civil libertarian I am troubled by this story.

Re: Politics

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:46 pm
by grovester
I don't think it was at the behest of the FBI. The FBI shared what they knew and twitter decided how they wanted to participate in that.

It doesn't surprise me that a company would not want to be associated with propagating a story that was definitely not in the public interest and was an obvious election gambit perpetrated by bad actors.

Re: Politics

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:40 pm
by FlippantCitizen
grovester wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:46 pm I don't think it was at the behest of the FBI. The FBI shared what they knew and twitter decided how they wanted to participate in that.

It doesn't surprise me that a company would not want to be associated with propagating a story that was definitely not in the public interest and was an obvious election gambit perpetrated by bad actors.
Hunter was stupid enough to let someone get his hands on an old computer of his. Nothing was hacked and no crime was committed obtaining the hardrive. Everyone now acknowledges it was a legitimate item and not fake. The laptop was released by Republican operatives not Russian ones. This is garden variety political mudslinging. The Dems went after Trump with the more or less totally bogus Steele Dossier. In that case the intelligence community lapped it up with complete credulity. In this case a bunch of former intelligence officials signed an open letter saying it had "all the hallmarks of a Russian disinformation campaign." This is the result with entrusting too much trust and esteem in unaccountable secret police and spy agency bureaucrats combined with fear run amok about foreign psy ops (which I won't deny the existence of, simply they are not a reason to trample a free press). I know my history well enough to remember that the FBI and CIA have not always had a liberal bias and might not in the future.

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:53 am
by grovester
FlippantCitizen wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:40 pm
grovester wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:46 pm I don't think it was at the behest of the FBI. The FBI shared what they knew and twitter decided how they wanted to participate in that.

It doesn't surprise me that a company would not want to be associated with propagating a story that was definitely not in the public interest and was an obvious election gambit perpetrated by bad actors.
Hunter was stupid enough to let someone get his hands on an old computer of his. Nothing was hacked and no crime was committed obtaining the hardrive. Everyone now acknowledges it was a legitimate item and not fake. The laptop was released by Republican operatives not Russian ones. This is garden variety political mudslinging. The Dems went after Trump with the more or less totally bogus Steele Dossier. In that case the intelligence community lapped it up with complete credulity. In this case a bunch of former intelligence officials signed an open letter saying it had "all the hallmarks of a Russian disinformation campaign." This is the result with entrusting too much trust and esteem in unaccountable secret police and spy agency bureaucrats combined with fear run amok about foreign psy ops (which I won't deny the existence of, simply they are not a reason to trample a free press). I know my history well enough to remember that the FBI and CIA have not always had a liberal bias and might not in the future.
The laptop and hard drive were real, the data on them was likely compromised/hacked, a mixture of real and planted.

But again, it wasn't really about what was on the laptop, the important thing was amplifying the headline. Get it out there and Cambridge Analytica will do the rest.

I'm happy to think that our intelligence officials have learned something since 2016.

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:40 am
by DColeKC
grovester wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:46 pm I don't think it was at the behest of the FBI. The FBI shared what they knew and twitter decided how they wanted to participate in that.

It doesn't surprise me that a company would not want to be associated with propagating a story that was definitely not in the public interest and was an obvious election gambit perpetrated by bad actors.
The FBI had possession of a copy of the laptop for a year and didn't do anything with it. 50+ former and current "intelligence" officers signed a letter saying it was "Russian misinformation" and most of the media jumped on board with this idea. They all likely knew the entire time it wasn't misinformation. Do you think Donald Trump Jr's laptop would have been treated the same way?

How is Hunter Biden using access to his father, the Vice President of the United States, to gain wealth and influence not in the public interest? How is Joe Biden being involved in these dealings not relevant to his presidential run? Trumps dealings with Russia in the past sure were a key public interest topic the left pointed to as a sign he was "in Putin's pocket".

You wonder why these hillbillies think elections are rigged? It's because of the unfair and biased treatment by the media, FBI and intelligence community.

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:00 am
by grovester
it's been 2 and a half years! Where's the beef to this nothing burger?

We are now in plan B where they spin the Hunter Biden story into how it was censored and if we only knew the truth and were able to amplify it the American public would come to their senses.

Just in time for 2 years of GOP hearings, coincidence much?

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:11 am
by phuqueue
DColeKC wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:40 am
grovester wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:46 pm I don't think it was at the behest of the FBI. The FBI shared what they knew and twitter decided how they wanted to participate in that.

It doesn't surprise me that a company would not want to be associated with propagating a story that was definitely not in the public interest and was an obvious election gambit perpetrated by bad actors.
The FBI had possession of a copy of the laptop for a year and didn't do anything with it. 50+ former and current "intelligence" officers signed a letter saying it was "Russian misinformation" and most of the media jumped on board with this idea. They all likely knew the entire time it wasn't misinformation. Do you think Donald Trump Jr's laptop would have been treated the same way?

How is Hunter Biden using access to his father, the Vice President of the United States, to gain wealth and influence not in the public interest? How is Joe Biden being involved in these dealings not relevant to his presidential run? Trumps dealings with Russia in the past sure were a key public interest topic the left pointed to as a sign he was "in Putin's pocket".

You wonder why these hillbillies think elections are rigged? It's because of the unfair and biased treatment by the media, FBI and intelligence community.
This post is in danger of collapsing into a neutron star under the sheer weight of the irony

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:37 pm
by DColeKC
grovester wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:00 am it's been 2 and a half years! Where's the beef to this nothing burger?

We are now in plan B where they spin the Hunter Biden story into how it was censored and if we only knew the truth and were able to amplify it the American public would come to their senses.

Just in time for 2 years of GOP hearings, coincidence much?
I don't care about it now, it's all over. The point is the fact it was relevant and treated as irrelevant when it mattered.

Of course the GOP is going to play the investigate/hearings game. The dems have been doing it for 6 years straight. All a giant waste of government resources.

Lots of coincidences in politics, like the FTX dude getting arrested the night before he was set to testify in front of congress. Pure accident right?

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:38 pm
by DColeKC
phuqueue wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:11 am
DColeKC wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:40 am
grovester wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:46 pm I don't think it was at the behest of the FBI. The FBI shared what they knew and twitter decided how they wanted to participate in that.

It doesn't surprise me that a company would not want to be associated with propagating a story that was definitely not in the public interest and was an obvious election gambit perpetrated by bad actors.
The FBI had possession of a copy of the laptop for a year and didn't do anything with it. 50+ former and current "intelligence" officers signed a letter saying it was "Russian misinformation" and most of the media jumped on board with this idea. They all likely knew the entire time it wasn't misinformation. Do you think Donald Trump Jr's laptop would have been treated the same way?

How is Hunter Biden using access to his father, the Vice President of the United States, to gain wealth and influence not in the public interest? How is Joe Biden being involved in these dealings not relevant to his presidential run? Trumps dealings with Russia in the past sure were a key public interest topic the left pointed to as a sign he was "in Putin's pocket".

You wonder why these hillbillies think elections are rigged? It's because of the unfair and biased treatment by the media, FBI and intelligence community.
This post is in danger of collapsing into a neutron star under the sheer weight of the irony
Please drop one of your infamous TLDR posts explaining!

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:59 pm
by FlippantCitizen
Yeah the beef has nothing to do with the laptop. The beef is the power being vested in corporations and the security state to control the political discourse. The generous explanation is that the security/intelligence services are simply over correcting after "discovering" the existence of foreign influence campaigns. The ungenerous explanation is they are biased, capricious, and political and are colluding with like minded individuals in corporate power structures to clamp down on free speech. I think there is something to both explanations.

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:18 pm
by grovester
So Trump's own DOJ conspired to quash a story that would be hugely beneficial to Trump.

Got it.

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 4:35 pm
by FlippantCitizen
I think if you're skeptical of both state and corporate power, and especially their fusion, this story speaks for itself.

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 5:14 pm
by DColeKC
grovester wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:18 pm So Trump's own DOJ conspired to quash a story that would be hugely beneficial to Trump.

Got it.
Trump wasn’t exactly friends with the FBI. I think it’s obvious they didn’t have a good relationship and zero respect for each other. The FBI had the laptop for a full year before warning social media companies about a “hack and leak” from state actors involving Hunter Biden. They absolutely knew this wasn’t hacked information. If they didn’t, I’m terrified about our FBI’s investigative abilities.

I’m happy Trump didn’t win but it’s clear it wasn’t a fair election. Would this Hunter Biden deal have been enough for Trump to win? I doubt it but that’s not the point. Our intelligence community needs to be apolitical and free of all biases.

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 5:39 pm
by grovester
This article sums it up pretty well.

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3 ... ip-claims/

"Journalist Matt Taibbi, who released the first batch of “Twitter files,” said that while he saw general warnings from the government to Twitter about possible foreign hacks, he saw no evidence of specific government involvement in Twitter’s decision to suppress the New York Post’s story on the Hunter Biden laptop."

I suppose you can take solace in the fact that Dorsey told congress he thought the decision was a mistake, but who knows what the really means?

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:11 pm
by DColeKC
grovester wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 5:39 pm This article sums it up pretty well.

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3 ... ip-claims/

"Journalist Matt Taibbi, who released the first batch of “Twitter files,” said that while he saw general warnings from the government to Twitter about possible foreign hacks, he saw no evidence of specific government involvement in Twitter’s decision to suppress the New York Post’s story on the Hunter Biden laptop."

I suppose you can take solace in the fact that Dorsey told congress he thought the decision was a mistake, but who knows what the really means?
I haven't read the FBI, Biden campaign or government flat out told Twitter to suppress this story but what's very clear is a handful of vocal politically motivated employees at Twitter pushed to suppress this story. Being a private company, that's all find and dandy but considering the power these social media platforms have, isn't it important they play fair and suppress equally? They really do have the power to sway elections and they've not taken any oath of honesty or do no harm stance.

When you're politically inclined to kill a story and all comments/DM's about it AND you've had the FBI telling you to expect a hack and leak, misinformation campaign, easy to understand how that decision was made.

The shadow banning is almost a bigger deal in some ways. Hope to learn more about that.

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:48 pm
by phuqueue
DColeKC wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:38 pm
phuqueue wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:11 am
DColeKC wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:40 am

The FBI had possession of a copy of the laptop for a year and didn't do anything with it. 50+ former and current "intelligence" officers signed a letter saying it was "Russian misinformation" and most of the media jumped on board with this idea. They all likely knew the entire time it wasn't misinformation. Do you think Donald Trump Jr's laptop would have been treated the same way?

How is Hunter Biden using access to his father, the Vice President of the United States, to gain wealth and influence not in the public interest? How is Joe Biden being involved in these dealings not relevant to his presidential run? Trumps dealings with Russia in the past sure were a key public interest topic the left pointed to as a sign he was "in Putin's pocket".

You wonder why these hillbillies think elections are rigged? It's because of the unfair and biased treatment by the media, FBI and intelligence community.
This post is in danger of collapsing into a neutron star under the sheer weight of the irony
Please drop one of your infamous TLDR posts explaining!
Does this really require further explanation? Which part are you having trouble with? The part where this is probably the first time in history that a Republican has complained about a wealthy failson relying on his parents' position to get ahead? The part where you're desperately concerned about Hunter Biden trying to "gain wealth and influence" through his connection to the VP, but apparently not about Trump and his family using the presidency to do the same on a much larger scale (for just a recent example, see, e.g., Saudi Arabia's $2 billion investment in Jared Kushner's new private equity firm)? Or the part where you're whining about "biased treatment" by the same FBI that made a completely unnecessary announcement two weeks before the 2016 election that they were reopening an investigation into Hillary Clinton based on information that turned out not actually to be new? Maybe it was the part where you referred to as "hillbillies" the same people you admonish ~~~the left~~~ for condescending to? Or was there something else that you thought needed explaining?

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:12 pm
by DColeKC
phuqueue wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:48 pm
DColeKC wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:38 pm
phuqueue wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:11 am This post is in danger of collapsing into a neutron star under the sheer weight of the irony
Please drop one of your infamous TLDR posts explaining!
Does this really require further explanation? Which part are you having trouble with? The part where this is probably the first time in history that a Republican has complained about a wealthy failson relying on his parents' position to get ahead? The part where you're desperately concerned about Hunter Biden trying to "gain wealth and influence" through his connection to the VP, but apparently not about Trump and his family using the presidency to do the same on a much larger scale (for just a recent example, see, e.g., Saudi Arabia's $2 billion investment in Jared Kushner's new private equity firm)? Or the part where you're whining about "biased treatment" by the same FBI that made a completely unnecessary announcement two weeks before the 2016 election that they were reopening an investigation into Hillary Clinton based on information that turned out not actually to be new? Maybe it was the part where you referred to as "hillbillies" the same people you admonish ~~~the left~~~ for condescending to? Or was there something else that you thought needed explaining?
Oh I’m sorry sir, I should have been able to read your mind. Why open your mouth at all? Wouldn’t your response fall into that whataboutism category made famous by the left when people would point out things Obama did?

I’m not here to talk about Hunter Biden. What he did and others do peddling influence isn’t anything new. I’m talking about how this information was handled. I’m sure If this aligned more with your liberal views you’d have issues with it but since it only helped your side, nothing to see here! The same people who pushed the Steele dossier as factual and have no plans to hold themselves accountable now that we all know it was garbage.

The hillbillies comment was about a certain group of people, not always the brightest, who feel the system is rigged against them and other “patriots”. I’m seriously shocked anyone wonders how 1/6 happened.

I don’t think you needed to explain anything, comprehend, maybe.