KCRag Forum

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:53 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:25 pm

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:12 pm Josh Hawley once again being a national embarassment with the only "no" vote to admit Sweden and Finland into NATO.

Any justifiable reasons at all? Or does he just insist on going against the grain with everything

Because it was an easy way to get his name in the news and he wants to be president (spoiler, ain't gonna happen).

He said he does not believe the U.S. should expand its security commitments in Europe, because America’s “greatest foreign adversary” is China.

Which is, with as maximum emphasis as possible through this medium, a fucking stupid thing to say.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/358 ... embership/

mean wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:31 pm It's like he drank the kool aid ....

taxi wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:32 am

mean wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:31 pm It's like he drank the kool aid ....

Is that what you call Trump's jism?

FangKC wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:58 pm It was a stupid position to take by Hawley. Even his GOP colleagues are saying so.

Having more countries in NATO makes a stronger counter to Russian aggression. Because it becomes stronger, it actually takes some of the heat off the US because it makes the entire alliance stronger. This frees us up to counter China.

Sweden and Finland actually have very strong militaries, and they are wealthy countries that can afford to contribute to the alliance. Their people are well-trained militarily--especially in Finland. People also fail to see that it makes Putin have even more borders to defend against the Western alliance. The Russian military is actually much weaker than people know, so having to defend even more border puts them at a disadvantage.

Hawley is a complete moron when it comes to understanding history and why NATO exists. Hawley sits in Harry Truman's senate seat. Truman created NATO after WW2. It was a bulwark against Soviet aggression, but it also stopped European countries from constantly being a war with each other. NATO kept the peace in Western Europe for over 70 years and likely prevented WW3. Most analysts and historians believe it was a master stroke on Truman's part. Truman read a lot of history, and he knew the fundamental flaws that existed on the European continent that had to do with long-standing conflicts over centuries. He realized Europe needed a strict supervisor until the countries broke their former habits. He also knew how vulnerable Europe was to Stalin after the destruction and hunger of WW2.

Reagan gets the credit for ending the Cold War, but he was simply following the blueprint every president after Truman adhered to as a long-term strategy.

Hawley should be ashamed of himself for sitting in the seat of the man who created NATO. Truman would openly scorn Hawley, probably in much the same manner as former GOP Senator John Danforth has recently.

Hawley needs to go. He's made stupid mistakes ever since he got elected to the Senate. He's an embarrassment to the state. He has terrible judgment.

Hawley absolutely can never be allowed near the Oval Office. He shows fascist tendencies.

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 pm Much of Hawley's base in Missouri believe that NATO is a totally spineless organization and it's the US that will provide the war materials and do the fighting in the event of an actual war with Russia.

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 pm Excellent points. Much of Hawley's base in Missouri believe that NATO is a totally spineless organization and it's the US that will provide the war materials and do the fighting in the event of an actual war with Russia. So I suspect he is simply playing up to this base.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:25 am

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 pm Excellent points. Much of Hawley's base in Missouri believe that NATO is a totally spineless organization and it's the US that will provide the war materials and do the fighting in the event of an actual war with Russia. So I suspect he is simply playing up to this base.

Yeah, to be fair, the US is among only about a third of the member states in meeting or exceeding the 2% spending target. It definitely showed whenever we were training with allied states. Half the time all they’d bring is their soldiers; we’d provide barracks, food, hygiene facilities, Ammo, vehicles, aircraft, and pretty much anything else that makes a modern military functional.

I’m not at all saying Hawley is in any way correct about his stance, and should actively be advocating for new member states joint that come prepared with all those modern systems and capabilities, but pretending that the U.S. doesn’t shoulder the VAST majority of the burden of nato is disingenuous. I’ve seen first hand just how arduous it is to have ANY other member state except the likes of the U.K. Or Germany run a multinational operation, and 99% of the time it’s an absolute shitshow

Highlander wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:44 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:25 am

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 pm Excellent points. Much of Hawley's base in Missouri believe that NATO is a totally spineless organization and it's the US that will provide the war materials and do the fighting in the event of an actual war with Russia. So I suspect he is simply playing up to this base.

Yeah, to be fair, the US is among only about a third of the member states in meeting or exceeding the 2% spending target. It definitely showed whenever we were training with allied states. Half the time all they’d bring is their soldiers; we’d provide barracks, food, hygiene facilities, Ammo, vehicles, aircraft, and pretty much anything else that makes a modern military functional.

I’m not at all saying Hawley is in any way correct about his stance, and should actively be advocating for new member states joint that come prepared with all those modern systems and capabilities, but pretending that the U.S. doesn’t shoulder the VAST majority of the burden of nato is disingenuous. I’ve seen first hand just how arduous it is to have ANY other member state except the likes of the U.K. Or Germany run a multinational operation, and 99% of the time it’s an absolute shitshow

Finland and Sweden's entry into NATO only strengthen NATO; they are not feeble nations that need to be rescued from Russia as Hawley suggests. That much is true. After the demise of the Soviet Union, the US has benefitted from NATO disproportionately using its presence in the organization to further its agenda and policies in the Middle East. The Europeans get security from a greatly diminished Russian military threat as part of the deal; Russia is a greater economic threat to Europe than a military threat.

mean wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:25 pm Sure, although to be fair when you choose to spend more on defense than literally the rest of the top ten defense spenders combined, it seems a little odd to then turn around and say, "damn it, why are we spending so much money?!"

im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:21 am

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 pm Much of Hawley's base in Missouri believe that NATO is a totally spineless organization and it's the US that will provide the war materials and do the fighting in the event of an actual war with Russia.

Has something suddenly changed in the world that would make this NOT the present reality?

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:20 pm

im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:21 am

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 pm Much of Hawley's base in Missouri believe that NATO is a totally spineless organization and it's the US that will provide the war materials and do the fighting in the event of an actual war with Russia.

Has something suddenly changed in the world that would make this NOT the present reality?

Ukraine has demonstrated countries can make a robust defense against Russia with just US war materials and tactical support.

FangKC wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:06 pm Yet, they haven't. Please explain Putin's genius.

im2kull wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:26 pm

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:20 pm

im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:21 am

Has something suddenly changed in the world that would make this NOT the present reality?

Ukraine has demonstrated countries can make a robust defense against Russia with just US war materials and tactical support.

Trust me, if Russia really wanted to crush Ukraine.. they would.