Politics

[GRID]

The fact that he wouldn't and still won't concede a lost election should be enough for any rational level headed person to never support him again. But rational people are hard to find in America now a days on both sides of the political spectrum.

Once again, people can accept that he lost...

You lost me there. Trump along with FOX and internet echo chambers have managed to brainwash a good portion of America, especially rural America and even suburban America in some parts of the country. People that I thought were normal now believe in all these conspiracy theories. It's not a small extreme part of the population, it's tens of millions of people and now you have Trump ass kissers running off the same nonsense and winning in many states.

I have many friends and family that have been exposed since trump via social media. These "conservatives" that are supposed to be "Christians" are some of the most selfish, meanest people I know now. Many are literally ready to take their guns and shoot their fellow Americans over this shit. They actually want a civil war. There are good republicans. Maryland's governor hates Trump and what he has done to the party and he is a moderate republican.

I consider myself a true middle ground, I vote both ways all the time, I vote moderate Republicans and moderate Dems, but Trump has single handily ruined the conservative party and has turned it into more of a cult than anything and anybody that supports Trump at this point after all he has done is an extremist IMO and there are a lot of them. It's a big reason I could probably never move back to the Midwest. People are literally crazy out there now once you get like ten miles from the center of a major city. You have to really get out into the rural areas here at least before you get into the far right nutjobs, but they are even here. Even if 20% of people in DC area are support Trump and all his rhetoric, that's a shit ton of people and way too many.

[DColeKC]

The fact that he wouldn't and still won't concede a lost election should be enough for any rational level headed person to never support him again. But rational people are hard to find in America now a days on both sides of the political spectrum.

Once again, people can accept that he lost...

I have many friends and family that have been exposed since trump via social media. These "conservatives" that are supposed to be "Christians" are some of the most selfish, meanest people I know now. Many are literally ready to take their guns and shoot their fellow Americans over this shit. They actually want a civil war. There are good republicans. Maryland's governor hates Trump and what he has done to the party and he is a moderate republican.

I know we're just using anecdotal information here but my experience hasn't been the same. I'd venture to say I'm more in touch with the rural community than most on here considering I grew up on a farm and in a very small, rural community. Here's the big shocker, the folks in the rural community who proudly and loudly wear the Trump shirts and pretend to want a civil war have always been idiots. As mentioned, there are complete and utter idiots on both sides of the aisle along with many supporters on each side who pretend to love this country but support things that will lead to its demise.

Anecdotal again, but of the several hundred rural people I continue to follow and stay in touch with, maybe 1 out of 10 who identify as republican fall into that Trumpism, MAGA election denying section. Which as you said still adds up to millions of people.

I feel it's probably similar on the democratic side of things when talking about extreme liberals. In both cases, the people seem to be lacking basic education on the topics they like to talk about and support.

[Link2]

I'm not implying that our government move on from dealing with it. They're doing the right thing by investigating and prosecuting the idiots involved. It's the media and democratic politicians that need to get back to business.

And while I agree it shouldn't have happened, those who were involved should be punished etc, the narrative that this was some kind of organized attempt of "overturning the government" is just dumb and dramatic. It was an unorganized group of idiots, many of which just went in for a joy ride but no true agenda. It's like those who loot stores. It's a few leaders followed by a bunch of butt darts who see an opportunity and find excitement and joy in doing things they shouldn't.

Now we have Biden calling half the country "MAGA Republicans" and comparing them to Nazis. This is the same dude who said he would unify the country.

How did I live to see the two worst presidents in our history back to back?

It 100% was an organized attempted coup -- not a group of misfits simply following every word from their right-wing demigod. Comparing the attempted overthrow of the federal government with those who loot during a riot is really offensive.

Tell me where Biden is wrong in his assessment of MAGA believers. Trump's movement fits the literal definition of both fascism and nazism.

It's really interesting Trump and his voters created this mess we're in with the extreme divisiveness -- dating back to Obama's presidency -- and now they're mad that Biden won't come in and clean everything up for them? Biden has tried to unify the electorate, with little to no success. And he has governed from the center -- much to the displeasure of progressives in his own party. There is simply no moving large blocs on the fringes in the case of the Dems. And the Rs really can't call it the fringe base anymore; it's taken over the entire party.

Calling Biden one of the two worst in history when we're not even two years into his first term seems like a colossal rush to judgment. I'd argue he's already one of the most consequential presidents we've seen and is on track to accomplish far more than most previous administrations.

This sounds like something straight from a "vote democrat" pamphlet and I'm having a hard time taking it seriously.

What's actually offensive is trying to compare Trump supporters and the republican party to a group responsible for executing 10 million people. The nazi comparisons should really be put back to bed and reserved for truly catastrophic situations which we hopefully will never see again.

The idea January 6th was a coup attempt is only popular amongst some liberal followers because thats' what the committee has labeled it. It lacks all the main requirements to meet the definition. There were no strong body of supporters from within the government backing it, it wasn't provoked by a national crisis, didn't have widespread support and the military didn't get involved. Even all the noted Trump plots to hold onto the office didn't contain possibilities of declaring marshall law or getting the military involved.

Jan 6th only showed our democracy and system of checks and balances is working as it should.

How anyone and I mean anyone could think Biden's administration is good or has accomplished anything of importance blows my mind.

Horrific exit from Afghanistan (We're probably going back)
Worst inflation in decades
Highest gas prices ever (I know I know, presidents don't have a say in gas prices.... BS)
Insane immigration issues
Fentanyl chaos
Recession/Economy
Record homicides in major cities
Medicare premiums increase the most they ever have

75% of the country thinks our economy under Biden is pour, only 1% think it's great.

As for this county being divided, that can and should be blamed on many things. Obama wasn't this great unifier although he was a great leader. There are just too many factors for it to simply be blamed on Trump and his supporters. That's such a bad and wrong take. Social media is a huge factor as well.

EDIT: I'm sure phuqueue will be in shortly to offer his elitist condemnation of everything I said!

I'm well aware they have not exterminated people. But the ideology of the GOP aligns quite nicely with that of fascism and nazism.

Jan 6th and the months leading up to/following the event check basically every box you've just used to describe why it was NOT a coup--that's weird, right.

Originally I'd posted a much longer reply listing Biden's accomplishments, but realized it's really not worth it. You and your fellow MAGA folks will not change. It's quite hopeless.

[GRID]

I just want basic proper and affordable health for all Americans and to get control of the crazy insurance and pharmaceutical corporate greed.

I just want proper infrastructure, like transit, bridges, tunnels, airports,

I just want higher education to be affordable to all if not free. You should be able to attend basic university and trade schools for free or for very little.

I want religion out of public schools and want them funded properly and teachers respected and paid well.

I care about the environment and think we should be doing more for our future

I don't think it is every American's right to have cheap gas just so they can fill up their F-150 to drive around the suburbs.

I don't think we should be able to buy whatever guns we want whenever we want.

Privatizing everything including public schools, infrastructure, government agencies, military, justice system etc is nothing but a corporate giveaway and should be kept to a bare minimum.

People need to take self responsibility and accountability for their actions and should be punished for breaking serious laws. If you so much as run from the cops and blow through a red light at 100mph, that should be ten years because you could have easily killed somebody doing that. Period. However things like weed and prostitution should be legal and regulated.

Cops need better training and accountability, but they also need more respect. If you get pulled over for something, stop with the race card, pay the ticket, don't cop an attitude and get on with your day.

We are the most affluent country in the world. Why can't we take care of our Vets, our homeless, the first responders that suffer from responding on 9-11 etc.

I want to rebuild our cities instead of supporting unsustainable sprawl.

I want to get control of corporate welfare and how companies avoid paying so much in taxes.

We should do more to help American farmers to protect them and our basic agricultural industry.

I can go on but none of this gets anybody's attention like hollering "lock her up" or "Let's go Brandon". People don't vote based on issues they should be voting on.

[DColeKC]

It 100% was an organized attempted coup -- not a group of misfits simply following every word from their right-wing demigod. Comparing the attempted overthrow of the federal government with those who loot during a riot is really offensive.

Tell me where Biden is wrong in his assessment of MAGA believers. Trump's movement fits the literal definition of both fascism and nazism.

It's really interesting Trump and his voters created this mess we're in with the extreme divisiveness -- dating back to Obama's presidency -- and now they're mad that Biden won't come in and clean everything up for them? Biden has tried to unify the electorate, with little to no success. And he has governed from the center -- much to the displeasure of progressives in his own party. There is simply no moving large blocs on the fringes in the case of the Dems. And the Rs really can't call it the fringe base anymore; it's taken over the entire party.

Calling Biden one of the two worst in history when we're not even two years into his first term seems like a colossal rush to judgment. I'd argue he's already one of the most consequential presidents we've seen and is on track to accomplish far more than most previous administrations.

This sounds like something straight from a "vote democrat" pamphlet and I'm having a hard time taking it seriously.

What's actually offensive is trying to compare Trump supporters and the republican party to a group responsible for executing 10 million people. The nazi comparisons should really be put back to bed and reserved for truly catastrophic situations which we hopefully will never see again.

The idea January 6th was a coup attempt is only popular amongst some liberal followers because thats' what the committee has labeled it. It lacks all the main requirements to meet the definition. There were no strong body of supporters from within the government backing it, it wasn't provoked by a national crisis, didn't have widespread support and the military didn't get involved. Even all the noted Trump plots to hold onto the office didn't contain possibilities of declaring marshall law or getting the military involved.

Jan 6th only showed our democracy and system of checks and balances is working as it should.

How anyone and I mean anyone could think Biden's administration is good or has accomplished anything of importance blows my mind.

Horrific exit from Afghanistan (We're probably going back)
Worst inflation in decades
Highest gas prices ever (I know I know, presidents don't have a say in gas prices.... BS)
Insane immigration issues
Fentanyl chaos
Recession/Economy
Record homicides in major cities
Medicare premiums increase the most they ever have

75% of the country thinks our economy under Biden is pour, only 1% think it's great.

As for this county being divided, that can and should be blamed on many things. Obama wasn't this great unifier although he was a great leader. There are just too many factors for it to simply be blamed on Trump and his supporters. That's such a bad and wrong take. Social media is a huge factor as well.

EDIT: I'm sure phuqueue will be in shortly to offer his elitist condemnation of everything I said!

I'm well aware they have not exterminated people. But the ideology of the GOP aligns quite nicely with that of fascism and nazism.

Jan 6th and the months leading up to/following the event check basically every box you've just used to describe why it was NOT a coup--that's weird, right.

Originally I'd posted a much longer reply listing Biden's accomplishments, but realized it's really not worth it. You and your fellow MAGA folks will not change. It's quite hopeless.

There it is! Showing your ignorant and unintelligent ass. Why do you people always make such asinine assumptions? Calling me a "MAGA" folk is a trashy move. Even though you basically laid out the spoon-fed democratic playbook I didn't call you a libtard or any other presumption term.

This is the go to move for you and you can do better. Instead of discussing the topics, you just throw people who don't agree with you into some pile of idiots. I'm far from MAGA anything, notice how I clearly said I do NOT want Trump to run?

If you think I sat here and invited all the reasons Jan 6th wasn't a coup, you're even more ignorant that I'm assuming at this point. Go do some googling on your own and try to find non-biased articles from scholarly types who are far more educated on the topic and agree that calling it a coup are democrats who know it's a good move to keep people like you duped.

What's hopeless are people who instead of sticking to the points and having a fair and honest debate, give up so easily and kick out the "insert radical affiliation here". Why? Because you're too dense to understand that people are capable of complex thought. They can have finely threaded thoughts and in one brain both disagree and agree with some things that Trump has done. I'd say overall, the Trump experiment was a failure but it had some wins. Just like I'm capable of saying this about the current administration.

[DColeKC]

I just want basic proper and affordable health for all Americans and to get control of the crazy insurance and pharmaceutical corporate greed.

I just want proper infrastructure, like transit, bridges, tunnels, airports,

I just want higher education to be affordable to all if not free. You should be able to attend basic university and trade schools for free or for very little.

I want religion out of public schools and want them funded properly and teachers respected and paid well.

I care about the environment and think we should be doing more for our future

I don't think it is every American's right to have cheap gas just so they can fill up their F-150 to drive around the suburbs.

I don't think we should be able to buy whatever guns we want whenever we want.

Privatizing everything including public schools, infrastructure, government agencies, military, justice system etc is nothing but a corporate giveaway and should be kept to a bare minimum.

People need to take self responsibility and accountability for their actions and should be punished for breaking serious laws. If you so much as run from the cops and blow through a red light at 100mph, that should be ten years because you could have easily killed somebody doing that. Period. However things like weed and prostitution should be legal and regulated.

Cops need better training and accountability, but they also need more respect. If you get pulled over for something, stop with the race card, pay the ticket, don't cop an attitude and get on with your day.

We are the most affluent country in the world. Why can't we take care of our Vets, our homeless, the first responders that suffer from responding on 9-11 etc.

What do you think is a good salary for a k-12 teacher?

I want to rebuild our cities instead of supporting unsustainable sprawl.

I want to get control of corporate welfare and how companies avoid paying so much in taxes.

We should do more to help American farmers to protect them and our basic agricultural industry.

I can go on but none of this gets anybody's attention like hollering "lock her up" or "Let's go Brandon". People don't vote based on issues they should be voting on.

I agree with most of this in some way, shape or form. The only thing that sticks out at me as something I'm very opposed to is the gun thing. We already can't but whatever guns we want, whenever we want. I agree on closing all loopholes and I think every sale, even private should be on the up and up. However, almost the entirety of our current situation with gun violence in this country is centered around illegally owned guns. No amount of NEW gun control will solve that problem, so let's focus on what will..... which has nothing to do with guns.

[Link2]

This sounds like something straight from a "vote democrat" pamphlet and I'm having a hard time taking it seriously.

What's actually offensive is trying to compare Trump supporters and the republican party to a group responsible for executing 10 million people. The nazi comparisons should really be put back to bed and reserved for truly catastrophic situations which we hopefully will never see again.

The idea January 6th was a coup attempt is only popular amongst some liberal followers because thats' what the committee has labeled it. It lacks all the main requirements to meet the definition. There were no strong body of supporters from within the government backing it, it wasn't provoked by a national crisis, didn't have widespread support and the military didn't get involved. Even all the noted Trump plots to hold onto the office didn't contain possibilities of declaring marshall law or getting the military involved.

Jan 6th only showed our democracy and system of checks and balances is working as it should.

How anyone and I mean anyone could think Biden's administration is good or has accomplished anything of importance blows my mind.

Horrific exit from Afghanistan (We're probably going back)
Worst inflation in decades
Highest gas prices ever (I know I know, presidents don't have a say in gas prices.... BS)
Insane immigration issues
Fentanyl chaos
Recession/Economy
Record homicides in major cities
Medicare premiums increase the most they ever have

75% of the country thinks our economy under Biden is pour, only 1% think it's great.

As for this county being divided, that can and should be blamed on many things. Obama wasn't this great unifier although he was a great leader. There are just too many factors for it to simply be blamed on Trump and his supporters. That's such a bad and wrong take. Social media is a huge factor as well.

EDIT: I'm sure phuqueue will be in shortly to offer his elitist condemnation of everything I said!

I'm well aware they have not exterminated people. But the ideology of the GOP aligns quite nicely with that of fascism and nazism.

Jan 6th and the months leading up to/following the event check basically every box you've just used to describe why it was NOT a coup--that's weird, right.

Originally I'd posted a much longer reply listing Biden's accomplishments, but realized it's really not worth it. You and your fellow MAGA folks will not change. It's quite hopeless.

There it is! Showing your ignorant and unintelligent ass. Why do you people always make such asinine assumptions? Calling me a "MAGA" folk is a trashy move. Even though you basically laid out the spoon-fed democratic playbook I didn't call you a libtard or any other presumption term.

This is the go to move for you and you can do better. Instead of discussing the topics, you just throw people who don't agree with you into some pile of idiots. I'm far from MAGA anything, notice how I clearly said I do NOT want Trump to run?

If you think I sat here and invited all the reasons Jan 6th wasn't a coup, you're even more ignorant that I'm assuming at this point. Go do some googling on your own and try to find non-biased articles from scholarly types who are far more educated on the topic and agree that calling it a coup are democrats who know it's a good move to keep people like you duped.

What's hopeless are people who instead of sticking to the points and having a fair and honest debate, give up so easily and kick out the "insert radical affiliation here". Why? Because you're too dense to understand that people are capable of complex thought. They can have finely threaded thoughts and in one brain both disagree and agree with some things that Trump has done. I'd say overall, the Trump experiment was a failure but it had some wins. Just like I'm capable of saying this about the current administration.

Ooooookay. Got it

[grovester]

I'm well aware they have not exterminated people. But the ideology of the GOP aligns quite nicely with that of fascism and nazism.

Jan 6th and the months leading up to/following the event check basically every box you've just used to describe why it was NOT a coup--that's weird, right.

Originally I'd posted a much longer reply listing Biden's accomplishments, but realized it's really not worth it. You and your fellow MAGA folks will not change. It's quite hopeless.

There it is! Showing your ignorant and unintelligent ass. Why do you people always make such asinine assumptions? Calling me a "MAGA" folk is a trashy move. Even though you basically laid out the spoon-fed democratic playbook I didn't call you a libtard or any other presumption term.

This is the go to move for you and you can do better. Instead of discussing the topics, you just throw people who don't agree with you into some pile of idiots. I'm far from MAGA anything, notice how I clearly said I do NOT want Trump to run?

If you think I sat here and invited all the reasons Jan 6th wasn't a coup, you're even more ignorant that I'm assuming at this point. Go do some googling on your own and try to find non-biased articles from scholarly types who are far more educated on the topic and agree that calling it a coup are democrats who know it's a good move to keep people like you duped.

What's hopeless are people who instead of sticking to the points and having a fair and honest debate, give up so easily and kick out the "insert radical affiliation here". Why? Because you're too dense to understand that people are capable of complex thought. They can have finely threaded thoughts and in one brain both disagree and agree with some things that Trump has done. I'd say overall, the Trump experiment was a failure but it had some wins. Just like I'm capable of saying this about the current administration.

Ooooookay. Got it

Did you not know that DColeKC is a progressive?

[phuqueue]

So if the country became "divided" during the Obama presidency, or after 9/11, or at whichever other arbitrary date, then we were I guess "united" before that? Are you guys sure about that?

Nobody actually wants to be "united" anyway. "Unity" sounds nice and comforting in the abstract, but I think most people would find it intensely unappealing insofar as it would require them to change anything about themselves or their beliefs in practice. For instance, DCole apparently holds it against Biden that he has failed to unite the country as he had promised, but Biden's vision of "uniting" was that he would negotiate with Republicans and magically persuade them to support his policies -- DCole, do you want to "unite" with Link in supporting Biden's policies?

[Highlander]

How anyone and I mean anyone could think Biden's administration is good or has accomplished anything of importance blows my mind.

Horrific exit from Afghanistan (We're probably going back)
Worst inflation in decades
Highest gas prices ever (I know I know, presidents don't have a say in gas prices.... BS)
Insane immigration issues
Fentanyl chaos
Recession/Economy
Record homicides in major cities
Medicare premiums increase the most they ever have

You risk losing your credibility if you truly believe Biden's administration is responsible for most if any of these issues. That is an incredibly simplistic take on recent events in the US. The seeds of inflation were sewn during CV-19 while Trump was president. If he was still president we would still be having the highest inflation in decades. Gas prices are a function of the world petroleum industry shutting down during Covid (with some impact from the Russian-Ukraine war), they are not, contrary to republican talking points, a function of Biden administration policies. Again, nothing would change with a Trump presidency.

Biden followed the Trump exit plan for Afghanistan. I truly doubt things would have been any different had Trump still been in charge.
Regarding immigration issues - "insane" is your word. They were just as "insane" under Trump and homicides in US cities rose under Trump as well. They were record highs then too but most Trumpers pawned that off on the administration in "Blue" cities.

I do not think Biden is a panacea for any of the economic problems in the US but he certainly isn't the cause. We would be having each and everyone of these issues with the same severity regardless of whom was president.

[KCKev]

United we stand devided we fall. Choice is up to us but looking back it's clear how devided we are.
I didn't make the bed but have to sleep in it

[DColeKC]

So if the country became "divided" during the Obama presidency, or after 9/11, or at whichever other arbitrary date, then we were I guess "united" before that? Are you guys sure about that?

Nobody actually wants to be "united" anyway. "Unity" sounds nice and comforting in the abstract, but I think most people would find it intensely unappealing insofar as it would require them to change anything about themselves or their beliefs in practice. For instance, DCole apparently holds it against Biden that he has failed to unite the country as he had promised, but Biden's vision of "uniting" was that he would negotiate with Republicans and magically persuade them to support his policies -- DCole, do you want to "unite" with Link in supporting Biden's policies?

I had no expectations of Biden. So far, he's not disappointed me since I set the bar so low.

I don't hold it against him that he hasn't united the country but I will hold him accountable for campaigning as the great unifier and giving a speech like he did last night. Arguably one of the most divisive in modern history. If he's not going to do anything to actually unite the country, fine, but please don't purposely make it worse!

I'd 100% unite with someone I mostly disagree with on policies I support. I'm not and never had even on a team politically. I've even got shit on here several times for this "Playing both sides" thing.

[DColeKC]

How anyone and I mean anyone could think Biden's administration is good or has accomplished anything of importance blows my mind.

Horrific exit from Afghanistan (We're probably going back)
Worst inflation in decades
Highest gas prices ever (I know I know, presidents don't have a say in gas prices.... BS)
Insane immigration issues
Fentanyl chaos
Recession/Economy
Record homicides in major cities
Medicare premiums increase the most they ever have

You risk losing your credibility if you truly believe Biden's administration is responsible for most if any of these issues. That is an incredibly simplistic take on recent events in the US. The seeds of inflation were sewn during CV-19 while Trump was president. If he was still president we would still be having the highest inflation in decades. Gas prices are a function of the world petroleum industry shutting down during Covid (with some impact from the Russian-Ukraine war), they are not, contrary to republican talking points, a function of Biden administration policies. Again, nothing would change with a Trump presidency.

Biden followed the Trump exit plan for Afghanistan. I truly doubt things would have been any different had Trump still been in charge.
Regarding immigration issues - "insane" is your word. They were just as "insane" under Trump and homicides in US cities rose under Trump as well. They were record highs then too but most Trumpers pawned that off on the administration in "Blue" cities.

I do not think Biden is a panacea for any of the economic problems in the US but he certainly isn't the cause. We would be having each and everyone of these issues with the same severity regardless of whom was president.

Well, i'm not too worried about my credibility in the politics section but you may want to look within. Of course I'm simplifying things because even when simplified people respond with TL;DR.

Same could be said for you regarding credibility as you go about making excuses for all our issues under the current administration. Theres a double standard in this country. When Trump was in office, anything negative was his fault. The things blamed on him personally never seemed to stop but now Biden doesn't have anything do with the current state of our country?

I'm fully aware of the complexities involved with these issues. There are endless factors involved but it falls on the current administration to deal with the issues and hopefully not make them worse. It's hard to argue that Biden's policies have done much to help the current situations.

As for the "but if Trump was still president", he's not and you're speaking in hypotheticals. Trump was more aggressive in wanting to get the country back open. Who knows how his administration would have handled the inflation situation.

Immigration - I'm confused here. How can you compare Trumps immigration policies to Bidens and not be realistic about the data we have available? Illegal border crossings are at record highs and that's before Biden's DHS cancelled the Remain in Mexico policy. Trump took a hardline on immigration and was often called various names for it.

Afghanistan - Heres where your credibility suffers. Do you really think that Biden was "just following Trumps plan"? Lol. Biden spent his first few weeks undoing every single thing he could that Trump had done. Yet we're supposed to believe he just followed Trumps Afghanistan exit strategy line for line? Once again, a hypothetical but I don't see Trump leaving 7 billion dollars worth of military equipment to the Taliban. Same dude that proudly cut the cost of Air Force One by a few million has no problem giving the enemy 7 billion worth of USA gear?

Murder rates going up in 2020 with Covid makes sense. Why are we still experiencing these issues with such a hot job market? What's the excuse now because Covid can't be it forever. Would lenient policies on crime and prosecution have anything to do with it?

Ignore the democrat vs republican thing, is Joe Biden really the guy we need right now to deal with all of our issues?

It took terrorists flying planes into buildings to actually unify us last time. I don't think Joe Biden and his calling half the country fascist is going to have the same impact.

[DColeKC]

United we stand devided we fall. Choice is up to us but looking back it's clear how devided we are.
I didn't make the bed but have to sleep in it

Makes you wonder the impact of social media and the internet.

You get 10 of us from this forum in a room to talk politics and we could probably have a 3 hour civil and engaging debate without one person being called a name. On the internet, there's zero hesitation to insult someone and label them.

[im2kull]

Link2 is correct. You have to hold accountable those who participated in the attempted overthrow of the government and overturning an election result. If you don't do that, you no longer have a functioning democracy and give sanction to people who promote the idea of using force to impose their will on others.

Those who so quickly want to "move on" simply don't understand the peril of this moment. A sitting president sanctioned an insurrection, and even now continues to make veiled threats of violence. Unacceptable in a democratic republic.

I'm not implying that our government move on from dealing with it. They're doing the right thing by investigating and prosecuting the idiots involved. It's the media and democratic politicians that need to get back to business.

And while I agree it shouldn't have happened, those who were involved should be punished etc, the narrative that this was some kind of organized attempt of "overturning the government" is just dumb and dramatic. It was an unorganized group of idiots, many of which just went in for a joy ride but no true agenda. It's like those who loot stores. It's a few leaders followed by a bunch of butt darts who see an opportunity and find excitement and joy in doing things they shouldn't.

Now we have Biden calling half the country "MAGA Republicans" and comparing them to Nazis. This is the same dude who said he would unify the country.

How did I live to see the two worst presidents in our history back to back?

It 100% was an organized attempted coup -- not a group of misfits simply following every word from their right-wing demigod. Comparing the attempted overthrow of the federal government with those who loot during a riot is really offensive.

Tell me where Biden is wrong in his assessment of MAGA believers. Trump's movement fits the literal definition of both fascism and nazism.

It's really interesting Trump and his voters created this mess we're in with the extreme divisiveness -- dating back to Obama's presidency -- and now they're mad that Biden won't come in and clean everything up for them? Biden has tried to unify the electorate, with little to no success. And he has governed from the center -- much to the displeasure of progressives in his own party. There is simply no moving large blocs on the fringes in the case of the Dems. And the Rs really can't call it the fringe base anymore; it's taken over the entire party.

Calling Biden one of the two worst in history when we're not even two years into his first term seems like a colossal rush to judgment. I'd argue he's already one of the most consequential presidents we've seen and is on track to accomplish far more than most previous administrations.

This is one of the most out of touch comments I've ever read. And, I'm saying that as someone who voted for Biden.

[grovester]

Seems spot on to me.

[DColeKC]

Seems spot on to me.

Makes a lot of sense. Par for the course.

[DColeKC]

I'm not implying that our government move on from dealing with it. They're doing the right thing by investigating and prosecuting the idiots involved. It's the media and democratic politicians that need to get back to business.

And while I agree it shouldn't have happened, those who were involved should be punished etc, the narrative that this was some kind of organized attempt of "overturning the government" is just dumb and dramatic. It was an unorganized group of idiots, many of which just went in for a joy ride but no true agenda. It's like those who loot stores. It's a few leaders followed by a bunch of butt darts who see an opportunity and find excitement and joy in doing things they shouldn't.

Now we have Biden calling half the country "MAGA Republicans" and comparing them to Nazis. This is the same dude who said he would unify the country.

How did I live to see the two worst presidents in our history back to back?

It 100% was an organized attempted coup -- not a group of misfits simply following every word from their right-wing demigod. Comparing the attempted overthrow of the federal government with those who loot during a riot is really offensive.

Tell me where Biden is wrong in his assessment of MAGA believers. Trump's movement fits the literal definition of both fascism and nazism.

It's really interesting Trump and his voters created this mess we're in with the extreme divisiveness -- dating back to Obama's presidency -- and now they're mad that Biden won't come in and clean everything up for them? Biden has tried to unify the electorate, with little to no success. And he has governed from the center -- much to the displeasure of progressives in his own party. There is simply no moving large blocs on the fringes in the case of the Dems. And the Rs really can't call it the fringe base anymore; it's taken over the entire party.

Calling Biden one of the two worst in history when we're not even two years into his first term seems like a colossal rush to judgment. I'd argue he's already one of the most consequential presidents we've seen and is on track to accomplish far more than most previous administrations.

This is one of the most out of touch comments I've ever read. And, I'm saying that as someone who voted for Biden.

I also voted for Biden, strictly out of fear thinking about what 4 more years of Trump would have looked like.

Do you agree with one of the statements above claiming Trump would have had the same horrific exit from Afghanistan?

[aknowledgeableperson]

"Do you agree with one of the statements above claiming Trump would have had the same horrific exit from Afghanistan?"

It would have different look but with the same result. When Trump cut the deal with the Taliban leaving the Afghan government out gave the Taliban a free ticket to just wait it out. Meanwhile the Taliban took over the countryside isolating the Afghan troops in the cities and larger towns. At the same time the Taliban negotiated with many of the commanding officers to surrender when the time came which they did. that's one reason why the Taliban took over the country so fast.
Not sure how many of you remember Vietnam but the collapse of South Vietnam was quite similar. Yes the US troops got out without much of an incident beforehand but we still had an embassy in the country. And that place was a madhouse trying to get US staff and citizens out along with many Vietnamese.
And don't forget the airport bomber was not Taliban but a member of an IS group, and enemy of the Taliban.

[phuqueue]

The Afghanistan cake was already baked years ago. America had twenty years to install an Afghan government that could stand on its own. It is a problem that long predates Biden, or Trump for that matter. Strongly doubt that Trump or anyone else would have handled the exit any better since the fundamental problem was that Afghanistan didn't have a government capable of operating without American support. The alternative option wasn't "handle the exit better," it was "stay in Afghanistan forever."

I'd 100% unite with someone I mostly disagree with on policies I support. I'm not and never had even on a team politically. I've even got shit on here several times for this "Playing both sides" thing.

This is my point though. You don't support the same policies, so you are not going to "unite." And that's fine, I'm not calling you out, I am using you and Link as concrete examples of why "unity" is a pipe dream. You can call Dems out for running on it if you want I guess but the whole "unity" thing just seems like an empty distraction. Politicians always run on nice-sounding messages that actually mean nothing and/or that they have no real intention of following through on.