KCRag Forum

Was HOA cheaper because it’s cheaper or because it would entail a single lane instead of the 2 a dedicated new bridge would carry?

normalthings wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:31 am Was HOA cheaper because it’s cheaper or because it would entail a single lane instead of the 2 a dedicated new bridge would carry?

It was cheaper (2014 numbers). Took this from my post then

HOA bridge has multiple variations in play.
Add single track lane. Has capacity for 7.5 min frequency
$15-35 million
Can take SB lane, could move ped lane

Build new bridge. Double track
$40 million

Move ped to new bridge. $60 million

so a new 2 lane dedicated bridge is in the order of magnitude as doing 2 lanes on the HOA.

So........what's the cost of putting it on the ASB?

normalthings wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:41 pm so a new 2 lane dedicated bridge is in the order of magnitude as doing 2 lanes on the HOA.

I would love to see a combined project where the HOA gets a full deck and structure renovation and double track is added to it during the work.
Completion of the new Broadway Bridge in 2024 will enable this bridge to have rolling lane closures at that time. With the study completing in 2022 could have engineering done and funding lined up for the project in 2024-25. The HOA will be 40 years old in 2026 so could argue it’s time for a renovation around then anyways

My guess is it’s the best way to get state funding for the crossing even though a dedicated bridge would be a superior project

flyingember wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:16 am

normalthings wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:41 pm so a new 2 lane dedicated bridge is in the order of magnitude as doing 2 lanes on the HOA.

I would love to see a combined project where the HOA gets a full deck and structure renovation and double track is added to it during the work.
Completion of the new Broadway Bridge in 2024 will enable this bridge to have rolling lane closures at that time. With the study completing in 2022 could have engineering done and funding lined up for the project in 2024-25. The HOA will be 40 years old in 2026 so could argue it’s time for a renovation around then anyways

My guess is it’s the best way to get state funding for the crossing even though a dedicated bridge would be a superior project

Great idea!

https://us3.campaign-archive.com/?u=c08 ... c4c2c7e07f

STUDY BEGINS TO TAKE THE KC STREETCAR OVER THE RIVER
Project Team Launches NorthRail Streetcar Study

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:32 pm https://us3.campaign-archive.com/?u=c08 ... c4c2c7e07f

STUDY BEGINS TO TAKE THE KC STREETCAR OVER THE RIVER
Project Team Launches NorthRail Streetcar Study

...and I pray the recommendation is to put it on Swift instead of Burlington. Keep Burlington the car/truck sewer and let Swift be the transit/pedestrian wonderland.

slimwhitman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:26 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:32 pm https://us3.campaign-archive.com/?u=c08 ... c4c2c7e07f

STUDY BEGINS TO TAKE THE KC STREETCAR OVER THE RIVER
Project Team Launches NorthRail Streetcar Study

...and I pray the recommendation is to put it on Swift instead of Burlington. Keep Burlington the car/truck sewer and let Swift be the transit/pedestrian wonderland.

Why, there is a ton of over-capacity on Burlington. A streetar line would be the ideal transformative tool to lead to density along all of those vacant and underutilized lots and warehouses along Burlington. Keep Swift pedestrian friendly and a bike artery. Burlington for cars and streetcar.

You can see the analysis on the old study.

https://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uplo ... ly2014.pdf

Burlington would support that higher speed, LRT esque service that many are asking for in the other thread.

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:53 pm

slimwhitman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:26 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:32 pm https://us3.campaign-archive.com/?u=c08 ... c4c2c7e07f

...and I pray the recommendation is to put it on Swift instead of Burlington. Keep Burlington the car/truck sewer and let Swift be the transit/pedestrian wonderland.

Why, there is a ton of over-capacity on Burlington. A streetar line would be the ideal transformative tool to lead to density along all of those vacant and underutilized lots and warehouses along Burlington. Keep Swift pedestrian friendly and a bike artery. Burlington for cars and streetcar.

You can see the analysis on the old study.

https://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uplo ... ly2014.pdf

If this is a one-stop at Armour high-speed light rail to get further north, then I can agree with you. If the goal is to be a multi-stop streetcar like we see in phase 1, then it would better benefit NKC to have it located on a calmer street where all users can hop off and support the businesses, employers or residential on the surrounding blocks. If we agree that all streetcar users are pedestrians before and after the ride, they need to be comfortable as a pedestrian. Burlington will never be comfortable.....to walk along, to live on or to have a non-car business on. It is an edge, not a "place". Let it remain that since there is still a need for a high car count corridor. Swift is worthy of a pedestrian focused investment.

If we treat all our streets as transportation utilities and not as places for people, we will never have places worth caring about. Swift should be that special street. The streetcar on Swift can ignite an invigorated NKC.

Is that only like 1 mile track it seems?

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:27 pm Is that only like 1 mile track it seems?

Google says 3rd & Cherry to 29th & Burlington is 2.8 miles, so... no.

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:41 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:27 pm Is that only like 1 mile track it seems?

Google says 3rd & Cherry to 29th & Burlington is 2.8 miles, so... no.

This extension would be longer than the 2.2 mile starter line! Less stops since at least 1/3 of the route would be crossing the HOA so hopefully that simplifies engineering and design.

Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:03 am

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:41 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:27 pm Is that only like 1 mile track it seems?

Google says 3rd & Cherry to 29th & Burlington is 2.8 miles, so... no.

This extension would be longer than the 2.2 mile starter line! Less stops since at least 1/3 of the route would be crossing the HOA so hopefully that simplifies engineering and design.

Whatever is simplified by having fewer stops is eliminated by being on an existing structure not owned by KCMO or NKC. Since neither entity has yet expressed interest in taking ownership of the HOA bridge, you have to do what MoDOT says. The study will help determine where they are now that the O'Neil Bridge is being rebuilt (with a significant local contribution) and traffic counts on HOA should be reduced.

good points from the past

Route options to be published in late April

normalthings wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:32 pm Route options to be published in late April

Narrowed down to two? Or all possibilities?

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:21 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:32 pm Route options to be published in late April

Narrowed down to two? Or all possibilities?

Public presentation with feedback period

normalthings wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:39 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:21 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:32 pm Route options to be published in late April

Narrowed down to two? Or all possibilities?

Public presentation with feedback period

Sweet. Was there mention of an open house format? Or will it be online only?