Phase 2 streetcar on Independence Avenue

[FangKC]

I see an opportunity to deal with the surface parking lot problem in the North Loop and River Market using the trench.

Build below-grade parking garages in the trench, and run the trafficway over the top of the garages. Then take the footprint of the access streets of Independence Avenue and 6th Street and allow new buildings to be built there.

Or leave 6th Street and Independence Avenue in place as the trafficway, and build new buildings, or parks, on top of the garages in the trench. One could allow taller buildings over the trench because parking would be available underground. This would also allow smaller buildings to be built on existing surface parking lots in the north loop and River Market, and less need for excavating garages underneath them.

It is always said the below-ground parking garages are so expensive to build because of excavation. The trench is already excavated.

Garages in the trench would also open up opportunity to build apartment buildings on many surface lots on Wyandotte and near the City Market.

[KCtonic]

Build below-grade parking garages in the trench, and run the trafficway over the top of the garages. Then take the footprint of the access streets of Independence Avenue and 6th Street and allow new buildings to be built there......Garages in the trench would also open up opportunity to build apartment buildings on many surface lots on Wyandotte and near the City Market.

Brilliant!

[flyingember]

I see an opportunity to deal with the surface parking lot problem in the North Loop and River Market using the trench.

Build below-grade parking garages in the trench, and run the trafficway over the top of the garages. Then take the footprint of the access streets of Independence Avenue and 6th Street and allow new buildings to be built there.

if this were realistic, there's an idea that could taken from Union Station

put a service street below the 6th St grade

then you can send trash, deliveries and such to the bottom level and put more actual people facing space.

[FangKC]

Build below-grade parking garages in the trench, and run the trafficway over the top of the garages. Then take the footprint of the access streets of Independence Avenue and 6th Street and allow new buildings to be built there......Garages in the trench would also open up opportunity to build apartment buildings on many surface lots on Wyandotte and near the City Market.

Brilliant!

OK, let's all sing along: "Garages in the trench. That is what we want" (sung to Islands in the Stream by Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hO61uwEIc4

[DaveKCMO]

good response at pendleton heights last night. tonight we address columbus park, then indian mound on monday.

[earthling]

^Were you able to give any indication what tax increase might be along that stretch? Once that estimate is out, there will be more realistic feedback.

[DaveKCMO]

no. i'm trying to encourage the neighborhoods to be proactive about what they're willing to accept. that hasn't gotten very far, but it's early. there is no official funding proposal on the table, but i haven't been candy-coating it either. all of my presentations talk about the TDD assessments and how that was actually the only thing people were fighting downtown.

and yes, i do realize they just had a fight to get people to pay CID assessments. however, this would probably 2-3 years off (just my guess).

[flyingember]

no. i'm trying to encourage the neighborhoods to be proactive about what they're willing to accept. that hasn't gotten very far, but it's early. there is no official funding proposal on the table, but i haven't been candy-coating it either. all of my presentations talk about the TDD assessments and how that was actually the only thing people were fighting downtown.

and yes, i do realize they just had a fight to get people to pay CID assessments. however, this would probably 2-3 years off (just my guess).

on this last line didn't the same organizing aspects start basically a year ago?

which would make funding and engineering timing the big question. the rest can be done fairly quickly even with a regular election. The NKC light rail TDD was approved late Aug 2008 and was on the November 2008 ballot. that's 2 months ahead.


related question, is this a segment where nothing less than the full length will be accepted? if half the distance can be done would it be?

[DaveKCMO]

we started organizing when the downtown AA started in april 2011. we had built a coalition by the time the first public meeting was held in june.

expansion will take longer than the starter line.

i mention the possibility of phasing when i talk to neighborhoods, but that hasn't been formally suggested by the city. you could get quite a bit of bang for stopping at benton on independence. some of the roughest parts are on that stretch, especially between, say, harrison and woodland.

[taxi]

"roughest parts"? Hey white boy, you chasin' our women around?

[DaveKCMO]

"roughest parts"? Hey white boy, you chasin' our women around?

You walk that stretch often?

[chrizow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOmZimH00oo

[loftguy]

"roughest parts"? Hey white boy, you chasin' our women around?

You walk that stretch often?

I have walked it often (takes a lot of quarters to pay the rent).

Perception, perception, perception. It is really not bad. I'm certain that many people, unfamiliar with deep urban, would be shared skitless.

"Things" can happen anywhere. I've been more concerned walking parts of the Crossroads than I have felt on Independence. Truth.

[taxi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOmZimH00oo

Yes, I was hoping for the response, "Oh pardon me Sir, that's furthest from my mind. I'm just waiting on a good friend of mine."

[flyingember]

Perception, perception, perception. It is really not bad. I'm certain that many people, unfamiliar with deep urban, would be shared skitless.

I've been throughout all of Missouri.
Including all of North St. Louis and most of the east side of KC

The place that scared me the most in Missouri was a small town in SE Missouri in the middle of cotton country. People stared at me the entire time I drove through it. I couldn't get out quick enough.

I'd say Independence Ave is probably more dangerous at night than the average suburban street but for a day trip it's not a place the unarmed dare not venture. I'd say it's as safe as Wornall or Main.

[DaveKCMO]

of course, i was referring to only a small section of independence avenue, not the entire street.

between, say, harrison and woodland

most of that impression is reinforced by derelict buildings, highway bridges/ramps, and a complete lack of street life -- day or night.

[loftguy]

of course, i was referring to only a small section of independence avenue, not the entire street.

between, say, harrison and woodland

most of that impression is reinforced by derelict buildings, highway bridges/ramps, and a complete lack of street life -- day or night.

Understood, Dave.

Have to state for the record that the Capri and the Admiral Motels, at Independence and Paseo, must be nuked for the safety and security of the Avenue, and any reasonable chance of a more positive future. These roach boxes have been the locus of police reports and misery for more than a half century. If you were to peel back the facades of these places, on any given evening, you would have the plot line for every television crime show for a season.

[FangKC]

Agreed. The motels on Paseo need to go. That intersection should be a gateway node. It's a great opportunity to actually build density again.

[DaveKCMO]

talking to indian mound on monday, paseo west on wednesday. the coalition is building...

[DaveKCMO]

city is close to issuing an RFP for phase 2 study.