OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Transportation topics in KC
watcher64110
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:56 pm

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by watcher64110 »

Question: Have they considered adding the Main Max busses eventually stopping at streetcar stops along the extension through midtown to increase service frequency?

I ask because this was how I learned to ride the bus in Boston many years ago when I was a student. The green E-line near my apartment was surface running and parallel with the #39 bus (which had replaced the streetcar past the VA hospital there into Jamaica Plain and was included in the T-pass) and as a "newbie" to public transit I learned with time that the bus was okay and sometimes faster. Busses or streetcar came every few minutes along that section: very convenient.
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by daGOAT »

watcher64110 wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:40 pm Question: Have they considered adding the Main Max busses eventually stopping at streetcar stops along the extension through midtown to increase service frequency?

I ask because this was how I learned to ride the bus in Boston many years ago when I was a student. The green E-line near my apartment was surface running and parallel with the #39 bus (which had replaced the streetcar past the VA hospital there into Jamaica Plain and was included in the T-pass) and as a "newbie" to public transit I learned with time that the bus was okay and sometimes faster. Busses or streetcar came every few minutes along that section: very convenient.
Its worth considering but I have heard the MAX will just run higher frequency service from Emmanuel and Main to Waldo. Living off Wilshire in Los Angeles I can say that having subway access, BRT, and regular bus service is convenient. Personally I thought continuing MAX service on Broadway would be cool, especially if the Blvd got the Prospect treatment.
User avatar
DaveKCMO
Ambassador
Posts: 20042
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by DaveKCMO »

daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:12 pm
watcher64110 wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:40 pm Question: Have they considered adding the Main Max busses eventually stopping at streetcar stops along the extension through midtown to increase service frequency?

I ask because this was how I learned to ride the bus in Boston many years ago when I was a student. The green E-line near my apartment was surface running and parallel with the #39 bus (which had replaced the streetcar past the VA hospital there into Jamaica Plain and was included in the T-pass) and as a "newbie" to public transit I learned with time that the bus was okay and sometimes faster. Busses or streetcar came every few minutes along that section: very convenient.
Its worth considering but I have heard the MAX will just run higher frequency service from Emmanuel and Main to Waldo. Living off Wilshire in Los Angeles I can say that having subway access, BRT, and regular bus service is convenient. Personally I thought continuing MAX service on Broadway would be cool, especially if the Blvd got the Prospect treatment.
Yes, that's the plan. I wouldn't expect it to change. Not enough resources to run parallel services anywhere in this region.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by earthling »

^Which is the plan? Extending streetcar line via MAX to Waldo with more frequency and/or turning Broadway into a MAX line?
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 17083
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by GRID »

I hope they are not taking local bus service off Main Street. Even with streetcar, you really need a local bus to compliment the streetcar like the X2 does with DC's streetcar. Especially for a streetcar that runs in mixed traffic and next to parked cars.

The X2 bus line is far more dependable, faster and frequent because DC botched the streetcar design. May not be as bad in KC since KC is not congested like DC, but I still think you need a high quality bus route and not only a streetcar.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by earthling »

^I agree and would like to see MAX from Waldo to North Oak overlaid with streetcar but Dave said that's simply not going to happen due better use of funding. The best case scenario appears to be either MAX extensions at streetcar endpoints or along Broadway instead of Main.

They can still run extra buses along streetcar when streetcar is either out of order long term or for major events beyond streetcar capacity. Probably a good thing streetcar is not center running along Main for those purposes as our buses don't have left entry doors.
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 17083
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by GRID »

It doesn't have to be MAX level with the fancy stops etc. Just a high frequency local bus with more stops actually.

Hopefully they move MAX to Broadway and have that line intersect with the ends of the streetcar and then go on to N Oak and Waldo or make it a stand alone and have other routes go to NKC and Waldo from the Streetcar transit stations.

Either way, you need local bus service on Main from the River Market to Plaza.
User avatar
DaveKCMO
Ambassador
Posts: 20042
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by DaveKCMO »

earthling wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:37 am ^Which is the plan? Extending streetcar line via MAX to Waldo with more frequency and/or turning Broadway into a MAX line?
KCATA will operate frequent bus service between Plaza stop and Waldo along the existing Main MAX alignment (but it will not be branded MAX). That's what is described in the federal grant.

Broadway service should be what's contemplated in RideKC Next (hourly service from East Village to UMKC via Broadway), but that's an open question right now. Broadway and Main are less than 1/4-mile apart for most of the distance between Plaza and downtown. Streetcar's walk shed has proven to be farther than that.
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 33833
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by KCPowercat »

We have no need for bus and streetcar on the same street. Come on guys.
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 17083
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by GRID »

KCPowercat wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:28 am We have no need for bus and streetcar on the same street. Come on guys.
Maybe KC doesn't, but it makes some sense to have an overlying bus line. More stops for those that need access to places between the streetcar stops, more frequency so you don't always have to wait for one or the other and more options in case the streetcar gets stuck in traffic, in a crash or any other thing that can bog down the rail line while buses can keep operating.

I know DC is a different a animal, but the streetcar in DC barely impacted the bus routes. Although if KC did have a complimenting bus line, that line would need to go beyond the streetcar route from say Waldo to Gladstone.

https://ggwash.org/view/61704/dc-street ... re-riding-
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 33833
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by KCPowercat »

The max now doesn't provide local stops and it's the only line on main (in theory since there are zero rn). I get the benefits but we have to be realistic about our resources.
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7188
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by beautyfromashes »

KCPowercat wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:28 am We have no need for bus and streetcar on the same street. Come on guys.
The buses will just slow down lead times. They'll block the line or back up traffic that will block the train. Totally inefficient. You want to ride Max bus instead of changing, take the Troost line.
shaffe
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2420
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:51 pm
Contact:

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by shaffe »

Also isn't the longest stretch between stops on the whole line, save for going over the train tracks and north loop, only 4 blocks? Even with the somewhat pedestrian-hostile stretch of Main through midtown I'm not sure it's worth running a bus so people only have to walk one block from a stop instead of two.

Keep bus traffic on Broadway-Mill Creek-Baltimore IMO. I'd love to see an off-street transit center where it connects with the streetcar at the Plaza before jogging over to Wornall to serve south KC. It might require an extra lane added to Wornall in some spots though.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by earthling »

Seems this is moving faster than when first line was built. Would make sense with lessons learned, or is my perception off base?

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... -27th.html
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by AlkaliAxel »

earthling wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:04 pm Seems this is moving faster than when first line was built. Would make sense with lessons learned, or is my perception off base?

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... -27th.html
Could it open early in 2024 then?
User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Overland Park, KS

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:43 am
earthling wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:04 pm Seems this is moving faster than when first line was built. Would make sense with lessons learned, or is my perception off base?

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... -27th.html
Could it open early in 2024 then?
When I went to the open house, the boards up around the room had some dates covered up with tape that were the original construction timelines. Had them finishing up construction in late 2024 and starting op in 25, but the late 24 was covered, so construction is (per SCA) supposed to be done Mid-24 now. Testing and whatnot will take quite a bit with this new stretch, but I don’t think it’d be totally out of the realm of possibility
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Are they going to start making the Liberty Memorial stop station soon? Or are they doing all those last
User avatar
DaveKCMO
Ambassador
Posts: 20042
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by DaveKCMO »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:02 pm Are they going to start making the Liberty Memorial stop station soon? Or are they doing all those last
They are trying to do as much track and hardscape in each segment as possible, compared to the starter line where they tried to do utilities and track at the same time then come back with platforms later.
User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Overland Park, KS

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

Unsure if they’ve started to keep a security guard/bumble bees on staff every shift, but I’ve noticed a significant uptick in some obvious narcotic enthusiasts who are riding. I had family visiting and took them downtown, and there was an individual who was being INCREDIBLY vocal and vulgar. Thankfully we were pretty far away, but my cousins wife was noticeably uncomfortable with her kids near him. The lady who was seated across from this guy ended up getting off on a stop that wasn’t hers, and waited for the next streetcar instead of finishing the ride across from this guy.

I’m all for accessible transit (obviously, pretty sure we all are) but it isn’t a good look when folks like this go unchecked and continue to cause disruptions and borderline harassment in public. Anything that can be done for these issue? It seems this has become a more prevalent issue since COVID as well, and doesn’t seem to be getting better.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Post by normalthings »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:28 pm Unsure if they’ve started to keep a security guard/bumble bees on staff every shift, but I’ve noticed a significant uptick in some obvious narcotic enthusiasts who are riding. I had family visiting and took them downtown, and there was an individual who was being INCREDIBLY vocal and vulgar. Thankfully we were pretty far away, but my cousins wife was noticeably uncomfortable with her kids near him. The lady who was seated across from this guy ended up getting off on a stop that wasn’t hers, and waited for the next streetcar instead of finishing the ride across from this guy.

I’m all for accessible transit (obviously, pretty sure we all are) but it isn’t a good look when folks like this go unchecked and continue to cause disruptions and borderline harassment in public. Anything that can be done for these issue? It seems this has become a more prevalent issue since COVID as well, and doesn’t seem to be getting better.
I understand this was an issue cities that previously tried free transit struggled with
Post Reply