OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

[FangKC]

Why does the city, or even KCATA, have anything to do with this or the power to change the design? They didn’t fund it. It’s run by a separate streetcar authority with “elected” members chosen by the neighborhoods. They really should be mute to any changes.

Because it uses a public thoroughfare and operates in shared traffic. The street is owned by the City, not the streetcar authority.

[beautyfromashes]

Why does the city, or even KCATA, have anything to do with this or the power to change the design? They didn’t fund it. It’s run by a separate streetcar authority with “elected” members chosen by the neighborhoods. They really should be mute to any changes.

Because it uses a public thoroughfare and operates in shared traffic. The street is owned by the City, not the streetcar authority.

And you think they will use city money for the change instead of streetcar construction money?

[TheUrbanRoo]

It seems like they’re actually gonna go through with this and really get us dedicated lanes down Main for the streetcar. Dang.

[smh]

It seems like they’re actually gonna go through with this and really get us dedicated lanes down Main for the streetcar. Dang.

Any exclusivity is better than none, but curious how this will be designed any differently than today's MAX rush hour lanes.

[DaveKCMO]

Why does the city, or even KCATA, have anything to do with this or the power to change the design? They didn’t fund it. It’s run by a separate streetcar authority with “elected” members chosen by the neighborhoods. They really should be mute to any changes.

1. The city owns the streetcar system. The Streetcar Authority operates it on their behalf. The city will always have the final say.
2. KCATA is the designated recipient of federal transit funds for the region and is actually the lead agency for the riverfront extension (again, at the city's direction). KCATA is also providing project management, procurement, and grant support for the Main Street extension. They are also the only direct operator of transit in the Missouri side (everything else is contracted to the private sector).
3. The Main Street Rail TDD board is indeed elected (hello, constituents!) but is only responsible for the mechanism that collects the revenue. A multi-party agreement, however, stipulates that the three entities (KCMO, KCSA, TDD) must agree on additional expenditures. The downtown TDD was formed by the city, but that district no longer pays for the system since all obligations were transferred to the new TDD after it was established.

[DaveKCMO]

It seems like they’re actually gonna go through with this and really get us dedicated lanes down Main for the streetcar. Dang.

Drive/walk the alignment. It will not be possible to dedicate the entire alignment to streetcar because there are many spots where the shared streetcar lane is the only lane. In those cases you would have to eliminate cars. I'm all for that, but I'm quite sure the City won't be when the dust clears.

This should have been done before the project entered the design phase and it could have been integrated into the track placement. Better late than never, though.

[TheUrbanRoo]

It seems like they’re actually gonna go through with this and really get us dedicated lanes down Main for the streetcar. Dang.

Drive/walk the alignment. It will not be possible to dedicate the entire alignment to streetcar because there are many spots where the shared streetcar lane is the only lane. In those cases you would have to eliminate cars. I'm all for that, but I'm quite sure the City won't be when the dust clears.

This should have been done before the project entered the design phase and it could have been integrated into the track placement. Better late than never, though.

So what dedicated lane to do you think the city will end up giving the streetcar then?

[beautyfromashes]

The Main Street Rail TDD board is indeed elected (hello, constituents!) but is only responsible for the mechanism that collects the revenue. A multi-party agreement, however, stipulates that the three entities (KCMO, KCSA, TDD) must agree on additional expenditures. The downtown TDD was formed by the city, but that district no longer pays for the system since all obligations were transferred to the new TDD after it was established.

First, the city and county got an absolute steal with the streetcar. They got a small group of people to self fund for an amenity that normally is paid for by all residents in the city. Then, they jack up the property taxes because the streetcar is actually there and a benefit to the neighborhood. They get boosted sales tax along the line due to increased activity. I’ve said many times, they owe the neighborhood. It carried the lead on what the city should be doing- providing solid transportation to the core. I also hate the idea of jamming through changes (even though I might agree with them). The city hasn’t “put in a penny” (Loar) and shouldn’t make any decisions over what the neighborhood wants. Lastly, the streetcar authority hasn’t had a neighborhood vote on a representative change since the initial election. It looks like a club that’s just voting themselves and their friends leadership on an entity that should represent the neighborhood but gets zero input from it. If there’s no accountability or transparency on a neighbor funded leadership group and the city just imposes expenditure changes before the initial construction is even finished, you’re asking for a lawsuit.

[langosta]

Can't help but think that 5 car trains would not be as hard to implement as we might think. London, NYC, and so on have services with trains longer than the platforms. In London the cars had closed gangways but in NYC you frequently have to traverse an open gangway. Would be good to have these running on First Fridays, KC Current games, Royals days if they come downtown. Not saying we need to replace the fleet but 2, 4 if royals move, would be a great addition.

CAF claims a 71% increase in capacity from our 3 unit Urbos to the 5 unit.

Today:


Tomorrow:

[DaveKCMO]

The "city" is all of us. More taxes into the general fund means they can actually address citywide problems. Even incentivized projects are a net gain in the city's coffers. The annual streetcar budget is approved with the city's budget and is clearly identified in the document (p. 303 of the current budget doc).

It's true haven't had a TDD board election to re-up anyone. It's not required by law unless someone files to compete with an existing board member when their term is up and terms are staggered. Vacancies are appointed by the existing board, and it's not an easy sell -- kinda like the school board. Thankfully we've had quite a few of the original seven (me, Jan Marcason, Ruben Alonso, Crissy Dastrup, Jeff Krum) who have stayed on the whole time. All who've resigned did so because they either moved out of the TDD or found the obligation not that interesting).

The input you would have with the TDD board is on the rates going down or maybe on additional expenditures (which don't come from us, they come from the city or KCSA who also have a say on what's approved). That's all we control. If you lobbied to reduce the rates then you're asking for the project to fail because the MSE isn't even open for operations yet and the city has backed the debt and received the federal grants.

The TDD board does not set the operational hours or policies of the streetcar and it is not in charge of any expansion beyond what's funded by the existing district. An example of this is the riverfront extension, which is not in the TDD and is not being funded by it (at the request of PortKC).

When we do have a conversation about rates going down, it will be more than just a few neighborhood opinions because the majority of funds come from the sales tax that spans a broader area.

[beautyfromashes]

The changes to the existing streetcar expansion plan to make dedicated lanes, who will pay for that work? If it comes out of the tax paid for by residents of the district, it should be voted on by, at least, the administers of the district. Funding should equal control and the city has provided zero funding. Personally, the neighborhood approved the district based on a certain plan. If the city wants to change it, they should pitch in to find those changes. Otherwise, the reserves of the district could be lowered causing rate increases or removal of free fare. Of course, at some point, the city should meet their obligation to provide transportation and wrap the streetcar into a bigger plan removing the district altogether.

[langosta]

The changes to the existing streetcar expansion plan to make dedicated lanes, who will pay for that work? If it comes out of the tax paid for by residents of the district, it should be voted on by, at least, the administers of the district. Funding should equal control and the city has provided zero funding. Personally, the neighborhood approved the district based on a certain plan. If the city wants to change it, they should pitch in to find those changes. Otherwise, the reserves of the district could be lowered causing rate increases or removal of free fare. Of course, at some point, the city should meet their obligation to provide transportation and wrap the streetcar into a bigger plan removing the district altogether.

I 100% support more transit, better service, and anything that achieves those 2 goals. You advocate for what makes America suck at building infrastructure. I would go so far as to say that the city should skip the study and go straight into design

[beautyfromashes]

I 100% support more transit, better service, and anything that achieves those 2 goals. You advocate for what makes America suck at building infrastructure. I would go so far as to say that the city should skip the study and go straight into design

I’d say what makes America suck at infrastructure is when it takes neighbors having to get together and agree to tax themselves to actually get good transportation. It means that the federal, state, county, and city governments failed. And then, when the projects almost complete, one of the groups that passed decides to reach in the pocket of the neighbors and change the plan without feeling the need to even ask.

[smh]

Folks I think we have to acknowledge that dedicated lane is only really possible for a handful of sections (top of mind is Pershing to 31st, though there are definitely others I just haven't looked at the plans for a while). This was designed as a mixed-traffic streetcar and a lot of that is baked in as Dave said. Almost feel like our energy would be better spent thinking about ways to reduce the number of driveways along Main which are all conflict points and opportunities to slow streetcar.

[KC_Ari]

True. It also depends how they plan to try to implement it. Is it just going to be with stripping the road for those sections? Because they are going to have to do that regardless. If it was fully implementing concrete dividers then it would be a significant cost increase.

[beautyfromashes]

Almost feel like our energy would be better spent thinking about ways to reduce the number of driveways along Main which are all conflict points and opportunities to slow streetcar.

I’d agree with this. The car wash across from McDonalds comes to mind along with Starbucks and St Paul’s during school pickup line and QT.

[DaveKCMO]

Almost feel like our energy would be better spent thinking about ways to reduce the number of driveways along Main which are all conflict points and opportunities to slow streetcar.

I’d agree with this. The car wash across from McDonalds comes to mind along with Starbucks and St Paul’s during school pickup line and QT.

100%

[moderne]

I really like the idea of paving the streetcar lanes in bumpy cobblestones to dissuade auto traffic in the streetcar lanes while the streetcar moves smoothly on rails.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I really like the idea of paving the streetcar lanes in bumpy cobblestones to dissuade auto traffic in the streetcar lanes while the streetcar moves smoothly on rails.

The UrbanLab KC team put together a couple infographics showing how this could be done, and the advantages.

[beautyfromashes]

Hopefully, we can slow car traffic enough to make biking on Main plausible. Rough texture might discourage that. Perhaps, we can remove some parking for more walking sidewalk and bike lane without texture.