KC Live direct competition with Village West

KCK · Post by **KCK** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:37 am

Ive lived in KCK too long to hope we can win.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/s ... tory1.html

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:45 am

I really don't think this is direct competition.....there are plenty of retailers out there for both.....

KCK · Post by **KCK** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:57 am

KC wrote:I really don't think this is direct competition.....there are plenty of retailers out there for both.....

It says in that article that KCMO officials see it as competition. As with most competitions, there can only be one winner.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:00 am

I don't see it that way

Post by **mean** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:45 am

Maybe if KCK was working on improving their urban districts so people want to live there instead of building a bunch of stupid shit for tourists they wouldn't have this problem. I hope Village West doesn't go tits up, but at the same time, I kinda do. We should have learned a long time ago: desirable neighborhoods > *. Tourist crap not backed by sound neighborhood foundations can make an area stagnant (Kemper, Arrowhead, 18th & Vine)...

Post by **dangerboy** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:23 am

They aren't really in direct competition. KC Live sounds like it's more focused on nightlife and dining, whereas Village West seems more focused on retail and shopping. While Downtown can't compete with the ass load of free parking, Village West can't compete with Downtown's central location and interesting urban environment. The two projects might end up competing for some of the same national chains (e.g. Hard Rock, Virgin, etc.) as well as media buzz, but they seem unique enough that there will probably be room for both to succeed.

Post by **bahua** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:28 pm

In a seperate vein, I really hope that they don't wind up really calling it KCLive!.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:49 pm

Could someone please fill me in on the huge tenants that the Legends is supposed to be bringing in??? They had to beg to get an Applebeeâ€™s. They have had a ton of time to announce major destination tenants and nothing has been announced.

Sure they have NFM and Cabellaâ€™s, but when the newness of NFM wares off and Bass Pro opens in eastern Jack, things will change a little. There is still nobody within ten miles of that area and itâ€™s nowhere near the big tourist and hotel districts of KCMO.

I just donâ€™t see it happening the way the press is making it out to be. The Legends is not going to be Baltimoreâ€™s Inner Harbor of the plains. And the people of KCK would probably rather have a Target anyway.

But who knows I guess.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:55 pm

If it is competition then we all know who will win and it won't be the western side

Post by **bahua** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:56 pm

Why is that?

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:59 pm

ill leave that for you to guess...
I don't want to start a fight though. Its obvious that a larger city, state with 2 companies which are much larger can build something that is bigger and better.

Post by **bahua** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:01 pm

The point I'm trying to make is that even though it's comparatively out in BFE, Legends is not to be underestimated.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:08 pm

and it shouldnt be overestimated either.
It in no way would compete with KC Live. KC live should get more support from people who care about the city.
KC Live would even have a better chance of Hard Rock Cafe and ESPN Zone.

Post by **bahua** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:12 pm

I would hope that touristic eyesores like Hard Rock and ESPNZone would be more attracted to the suburbs, where the their uglines matches their surroundings.

The reason I say not to immediately dismiss Legends is that people in this town(this is so unbelievable to me) don't mind driving 40 miles through suburban traffic to go shopping, as long as they are assured that it's the latest and greatest.

TheDude · Post by **TheDude** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:26 pm

as with all of this chatter--i will believe it when I SEE IT!!! agree that the "tourist" shit needs to go to the track, there is more of a market for it there--not that its bad, i just do not prefer it personally; i think its great for west wydot. having just been in Times Square (NYC) and seeing the lines out the doors of all the major national chains, i believe the track is a better location.

downtown should focus on unique national/international retailers to position itself in the market. want chains? go to the Plaza or Leawood Town Center.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:02 pm

I would respect your opinion but I cannot agree with letting the suburbs take what belongs to the city.
The suburbs suck pur and simple. They can have the track and Cabelas but the truth is that KCMO and downtown will always be better. I hope that some day the suburbs will become a dead place because I believe they caused downtown to become like it is/was.
They deserve to be shut down!
You must be very stupid if you think ESPN Zone and Hard Rock Cafe should be in the suburbs. The suburbs deserve CRAP! ESPN Zone belongs in an entertainment area which will be downtown. Cabelas will be surpassed by the Bass Pro Shop even if Cabelas is a different type of store.
If you want KC to prosper and to become a happening place then you will support KC Live and oppose the places in the burbs.
The only thing Kansas really deserves is to have its roads stay in good shape so that people passing through can speed through the state while going to "better" areas like Colorado and Missouri.
I don't like Kansas. I recently (Friday) rode to Olathe and I never like what I see. Lake Quavira (however you spell it) should be a getaway place. (like it is). KCK will never ever have business like KCMO. Kansas will never be able to compete with us. They are like East STL trying to compete with STL.
Like I said, if you love our city and want it to be a better place then you have to support KC Live and ONLY KC Live. Kansas' suburbs won't ever have Hard Rock Cafe and ESPN Zone. Besides they don't deserve them.
KC needs to have people come to the city to work and shop!!! That is why cities were created!!! For working and shopping. Suburbs were meant only for minor retail and homes.
Kansas and suburbs suck, they hurt great cities like KC and STL.
You cannot oppose KC Live unless you want downtown to suck for a couple more years!
"agree that the "tourist" shit needs to go to the track"
So you think that the arena, and any enterainment district etc... Should go in the suburbs? If you think that then you don't deserve to even live in KC IMO. If you want Kansas to prosper and to hurt KC then move to Kansas!
"having just been in Times Square (NYC) and seeing the lines out the doors of all the major national chains, i believe the track is a better location. "
so you think Kansas should be like the times square of the KC metro? That is really stupid you know that? Like I said. Kansas and its cities will never be able to compete or equal us.
Also, have some of you idiots forgotten about those of us on the Missouri Side???????!!!!!!!!!!!!! We can't drive all the way acrross the freakin border just for hunting/fishing stuff or for anything else like that.

And how the he** are ESPN Zone and Hard Rock Cafe eyesores???!!! Explain that to me! Have you ever been there? They would attract people. There should be more people in the metro whoa actually want to go to these two places more than you do! One person doesnt matter you know. I am willing to bet that ESPN Zone and Hard Rock WILL go downtown. And most of the metro (except the idiots in Kansas) will be happy with it!

I wish for Kansas to become the east stl of KC. It doesnt deserve the latest and greatest.
Also just so you know...
This section is called DOWNTOWN!!
Not downtown KCK or downtown OP or anything else!!! The main city in this forum is Kansas City Missouri!! It is the biggest city in the metro and it always will be.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:51 pm

I agree and disagree with both of you.

Devin, enough with the hatred and insults. It's not very Christian of you and it is yet another display of yet another sample of the vile intolerance I have seen so often among enough people of religion to drive me 100% away from religion. People have the right to live anywhere they want and every place on this planet has some quality that is endearing to those who are happy living there. It is far better for both sides of our state line to thrive than for either side to be an abandoned burnt-out wasteland. When good things happen to St. Louis, it makes Missouri a better place. When good things happen to Johnson County, it can make the whole KC area stronger. When good things happen in Omaha or Des Moines or Topeka, the entire region becomes a better place. So lay off the hate. It's like a three year old.

That said, I don't want to see Village West fail and want to see what is being built there succeed. But they should stick to the, and I use this term only because I can't think of a better one, "redneck" theme and continue to land tenants that are suited to that demographic.

Some of those big-name internationally-known entertainment chains SHOULD locate downtown, despite bahua's dislike for them. A mix of those places along with more local venues will draw conventioneers (who won't have a clue what the local places are) into the that area, and in doing so they will be exposed to the local places as well. You have to have at least a few big names in there. No one says you have to go to those places.

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:03 pm

Why don't you really tell us how you feel Devin.

I doubt convention attendees will go out to Legends, so the downtown entertainment district will appeal to them. Subsequently, I think ESPN Zone, Hard Rock, House of Blues will more likely choose downtown for these reasons:

Central location: It's about equal driving time for most suburban residents coming from all directions. People in Independence or Lee's Summit aren't going to want to drive to Legends when KC entertainment districts are much closer.

Built-in customers: Having the convention center and hotels so close will provide customers on a regular basis that have nowhere to go now. The growing number of downtown residents will also be a source of regular customers that live within walking distance.

Entertainment Venues: Because of the proximity of Bartle Hall, The Folly, Kemper, American Royal, Music Hall, The Lyric, Midland Theater, and the new performing arts center, the entertainment district will benefit from these venues before and after events. The new downtown arena will do the same.

Legends will be more family-oriented. Hard Rock and ESPN Zone appeal mostly to singles and young professionals living in urban areas.

Downtown has a greater number of workers that might frequent these places after work before they drive home. The restaurants will also benefit from the lunchtime crowd and business lunches. Business people working downtown won't have to drive to the Plaza anymore for these business lunches.

If ESPN Zone, HRC, Virgin, and HOB don't choose downtown, they are more likely to choose the Plaza or Westport than Legends--for many of the same reasons listed above.

I will be surprised though if Virgin Megastore comes downtown. It is much more likely they will choose the Plaza and take over a location like Eddie Bauer. That space is large and has good frontage.

The reasons the Plaza has remained a perennial favorite for decades are because of its central location to all areas of the metro; a sizeable residential population lives nearby; the property owners have always kept up the buildings while constantly working to improve the district. It also benefits from being a nice place to walk, and has charming attributes. The difference between the Plaza and any strip mall in the city is the architecture, art, and fountains. The holiday lights don't hurt either.

One of the primary measures of whether the KC Live project will have long-term success will be whether it ends up having interesting and appealing architecture or not--and a sense of place. If they put up a bunch of non-descript, ordinary-looking buildings, in 20-years, the place will be dead as a doornail. Tenants will come and go over time, but it's the character of the place that will endure. Call it the charm, or the coolness factor.

The Plaza works because it's interesting to look at--even if you aren't shopping or eating there. That is why it has continued to be a successful destination, as opposed to Ward Parkway Center, and Mission Center. If the Plaza was as lackluster as those shopping centers, it would share the same fate no matter the location.

Post by **mean** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:17 pm

I would respect your opinion but I cannot agree with letting the suburbs take what belongs to the city.

Why do these things "belong to" the city? I don't really want an ESPNZone or whatever. You do. Fine, but that doesn't mean it "belongs to" KCMO. Let the suburbs have the stupid chain crap. That is not what makes a city great. The end.

You must be very stupid if you think ESPN Zone and Hard Rock Cafe should be in the suburbs.

You must be very stupid if you think that crap should be in the city. The suburbs deserve big parking lots and chain stores and traffic nightmares, and that's what they get.

If you want KC to prosper and to become a happening place then you will support KC Live and oppose the places in the burbs.

Wrong. If you want KC to prosper and become a happening place, then you will support (in the 'support mentally' way) KC Live AND the places in the burbs. There can be no argument here. You may hate on the suburbs all you want, I mean, I'm not a big fan of them either. But they aren't going anywhere! So what happens if we live in Devinland? The suburbs become blighted wasteland, and KC continues to stagnate for infinity. The only viable solution is to have HEALTHY city and HEALTHY suburbs -- that is the BEST SCENARIO for both the city and the burbs. So take your prejudices and shove them where the sun don't shine, because they are inappropriate and would kill the city you claim to love.

For someone who claims to be so in love with KC, you sure come up with lots of stupid ideas that would destroy it.

And how the he** are ESPN Zone and Hard Rock Cafe eyesores???!!!

Ever hear of 'culture'? How about 'mass media culture'? How about 'MTV sucks, Hard Rock sucks, and the corporate bullshit culture you've been lapping up all your life like a thirsty dog sucks'? Put the boring, generic mass-media pop culture crap as far away from places with REAL culture as possible so as not to dilute the real with the plastic. Not to mention that drawing PEOPLE is one thing, but drawing the RIGHT KIND of people is another thing entirely. The young, smart, creative crowd is who you want. Me! You want me! And I will not support with my hard-earned money a stupid plastic fake development. Hard Rock, ESPN Zone can piss off. I will never support that kind of pseudoculture with my time and money, even if it means KCDevin will think I "don't support KC" when in reality, I support it a hell of a lot more than Mr. KCDevin who doesn't even live here. What I don't support is fakery. What I don't support are half-hearted attempts at making downtown 'cool' to suburbadroids by filling our city with miscellany from the suburbadriod pool of comfort zone establishments. Screw those people. They don't 'get it'. And neither do you.

Granted, I'm not fiercly opposed to these things to the point where I'll make picket signs and try to convince people to boycott or anything, I just won't go there. And if there are places within KC Live that I like, I will not let my dislike of any particular major anchor keep me away. But crushing everything down into "Devin-sized" issues, where everything is either black or white and everyone who agrees is "supporting" KC and everyone who disagrees is "against" KC, simply doesn't work. It is wrong, and it's starting to piss me off.

KC0KEK · Post by **KC0KEK** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:24 pm

Regardless of whether KC gets a Virgin Megastore and, if it does, where it's located, why is Virgin considered a major win for this city or any city? I've been in them before, most recently the one in New Orleans, and I don't see what the fuss is about. It was like a glorified Sam Goody.