Amenities missing from downtown

[aknowledgeableperson]

Inside an office building just about limits you to breakfast and lunchon weekdays and almost zero on weekends and holidays. You might get some dinner business as people leave but I would think that is minimal. Your best chance of survival is a storefront.

Now the question is can you make enough profit to make it worthwhile for the hassle? Just throwing out numbers here but is a $1,000 profit per month worth your time and effort? $2,000? $3,000? At what point do you want that profit level to be? And that leads to another question. For the same time and effort what level of profit do you expect for a location that offers drive-by service?

[pash]

.

[Auggy]

Definitely a decent gas station where the clerk doesn't have to ask me if the "customers" outside have been harassing me.

[KCPowercat]

Can we at least try to have some semblance of an urban built environment. Not everything needs a drive through.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of a franchisee. Assuming McDs w/ drivethroughs perform better than those w/o, I'd rather own a franchise on a highway exit than in the base of an office building.

I see what you are saying.....from my perspective I'd rather not have McDonalds or any other "fast food" place then if they require a drive through. They adapt in other cities quite well.

[aknowledgeableperson]

AKP, this is why concepts like return on equity and opportunity cost exist. ...

Sometimes business decisions are not based on numbers but on emotions, and I would imagine that would apply to many small business owners. "This little profit (if any) just doesn't make it worthwhile to me for the amount of work I have to do" probably has more to do with closing or relocating a business than comparing profit and money invested.

[knucklehead]

AKP - I think what you are describing is the concept of opportunity costs. "I have better things to do with my time" is a classic example of opportunity costs.

[Demosthenes]

Definitely a decent gas station where the clerk doesn't have to ask me if the "customers" outside have been harassing me.

Haha are you talking about the Valero? I personally like the place (even though Boulevard sixers are all $8.50 ) but there are definitely some characters that hang around it. I also like Grand Slam (well more of a love/hate relationship there since they tore their old building down. So stupid...)

I would also like to see a head shop downtown.

[chaglang]

Definitely a decent gas station where the clerk doesn't have to ask me if the "customers" outside have been harassing me.

Haha are you talking about the Valero?

In 2009 I had a temp job around the corner from the Valero on 16th, and in the 3 weeks I was there, two people were shot in the parking lot and it was robbed once.

[Auggy]

Definitely a decent gas station where the clerk doesn't have to ask me if the "customers" outside have been harassing me.

Haha are you talking about the Valero?

In 2009 I had a temp job around the corner from the Valero on 16th, and in the 3 weeks I was there, two people were shot in the parking lot and it was robbed once.

Yep, that's the one. Only stop there in emergency situations. Would love to see a small QT somewhere closer than down a few miles on the BLVD.

[flyingember]

two more basic needs:

eye doctor
urgent care clinic (inside loop, there is one in crossroads)

-----------
I was in Chicago over the weekend and they have a lot of what we do but in more quantity.

there were zero drive thrus for any fast food chain. Including McDonalds and Starbucks. sandwich shops were numerous.

I saw at Walgreens, Oscos, and CVS everywhere. I was amazed just how many drug stores there were. you'd see competing chains literally around the corner

They had a Nordstrom that started in one building and ended in another with their parking way on the back corner across the street. It bridged the gap with a bridge on the 3rd floor.

a lot of their stores split floors. like you'd have one business on 1 and 3 with a huge escalator. sometimes the entrance was on 1 and the entire store on 2 or 3. one store was actually split between the basement and 3. allowed for things that need a streetfront to have it and a bigger retail store or two to be above.

They had a 9.5% sales tax rate and that didn't stop foot traffic one bit.

I was amazed how many stores selling souvenirs there were. that would be a good thing to have in downtown KC. perhaps coupled with a mini convenience store. posters, magnets, tshirts with KC themes, ties, BBQ sauce, Roasterie coffee and such. basically have all the big names like the sports teams, museums and such stock it with stuff. the city could contract it to someone to run it and split the profits with the groups supplying the items.

car rental would share space with a parking garage. seems like a good idea for downtown with our crazy number of parking spaces.

[smh]

Research Urgent Care was at 9th & Main until recently... not sure if they're gone for good but a sign says closed until further notice.

[GRID]

Number one thing missing from downtown now is urban recreation. I will not back down from that. Ever.

I honestly think that just about every city out there, even those much smaller than kc, have developed a thriving urban recreation scene.

You go to any city now from Omaha to Philadelphia and there are just hundreds and often thousands of people at any given time out on very busy and visible urban trail systems etc. KC is just missing that element of activity and vibrancy. The shared bikes are a nice start, but I think the city sort of got ahead of itself a little because there is almost no urban biking infrastructure there.

This is not a slam, but something I really think KC needs to make a priority. You go to any city now and you can see that they have just massive urban recreational infrastructure compared to kc and it's taken advantage of by a ton of people (suburbanites/tourists too) Some places have always been very active like Boston, Philly, Minneapolis, Denver etc, but now even Indy, Columbus, Des Moines, Tulsa etc have extensive urban recreational infrastructure that really adds to the vibrancy and quality of life to those cities.

KC just needs to make this a top priority in my opinion. The city has done a lot of other things to catch up and now it's time to do this.

[smh]

Number one thing missing from downtown now is urban recreation. I will not back down from that. Ever.

I honestly think that just about every city out there, even those much smaller than kc, have developed a thriving urban recreation scene.

You go to any city now from Omaha to Philadelphia and there are just hundreds and often thousands of people at any given time out on very busy and visible urban trail systems etc. KC is just missing that element of activity and vibrancy. The shared bikes are a nice start, but I think the city sort of got ahead of itself a little because there is almost no urban biking infrastructure there.

This is not a slam, but something I really think KC needs to make a priority. You go to any city now and you can see that they have just massive urban recreational infrastructure compared to kc and it's taken advantage of by a ton of people (suburbanites/tourists too) Some places have always been very active like Boston, Philly, Minneapolis, Denver etc, but now even Indy, Columbus, Des Moines, Tulsa etc have extensive urban recreational infrastructure that really adds to the vibrancy and quality of life to those cities.

KC just needs to make this a top priority in my opinion. The city has done a lot of other things to catch up and now it's time to do this.

Agreed. Just got back from Missoula, MT. They have extensive bike lanes, and the "green boxes", etc. Spokane, WA wasn't far behind with plenty of bike lanes.

[kboish]

Number one thing missing from downtown now is urban recreation. I will not back down from that. Ever.

I honestly think that just about every city out there, even those much smaller than kc, have developed a thriving urban recreation scene.

You go to any city now from Omaha to Philadelphia and there are just hundreds and often thousands of people at any given time out on very busy and visible urban trail systems etc. KC is just missing that element of activity and vibrancy. The shared bikes are a nice start, but I think the city sort of got ahead of itself a little because there is almost no urban biking infrastructure there.

This is not a slam, but something I really think KC needs to make a priority. You go to any city now and you can see that they have just massive urban recreational infrastructure compared to kc and it's taken advantage of by a ton of people (suburbanites/tourists too) Some places have always been very active like Boston, Philly, Minneapolis, Denver etc, but now even Indy, Columbus, Des Moines, Tulsa etc have extensive urban recreational infrastructure that really adds to the vibrancy and quality of life to those cities.

KC just needs to make this a top priority in my opinion. The city has done a lot of other things to catch up and now it's time to do this.

Agreed. Just got back from Missoula, MT. They have extensive bike lanes, and the "green boxes", etc. Spokane, WA wasn't far behind with plenty of bike lanes.

I absolutely agree with this. It is very perplexing that we don't have ANY bike lanes in our urban core. Trolley trail south of the plaza is a great example of what GRID is talking about. Look how vibrant and well used that is. Recently got back from Denver and Des Moines. Its hard to believe just how common these amenities are in other cities. I am rarely one to look to other cities and think "we need to catch up", but in this case we really do. It is also crazy b/c it is seemingly incredibly easy to make these trail/lane networks. I'm hoping we can correct this soon!

[flyingember]

It is very perplexing that we don't have ANY bike lanes in our urban core.

Completely wrong.

Pennsylvania between 12th and 14th has the signs and worn paint for a marked bike lane. (not that it's in a good spot)


There's also this that's not marked on the street but there are signs with bikes on them. part of this path is dedicated for bikes north of 2nd St.
http://riverfrontheritagetrail.com/trai ... erview.htm
since you're in Columbus park, go to the Town of Kansas Bridge in the river market, walk down a flight of stairs and notice how one side has a metal bike channel for walking bikes up the stairs. it's a bike friendly path from bluffs to the bottom.

and the bottoms paths downtown are well done. the south side of Front St has a very long bike path along it

there's a pedestrian bridge from Mulkey Square Park to the westside

there's bike lanes along Pennway in the westside from 17th to 21st

so there's bike-safe paths all across downtown and they're well connected with signage telling drivers. it just needs to be marked better on the street itself

[chingon]

I still don't understand why every divided boulevard in the city doesn't have a crushed gravel trail down the center of the parkway. Penn Valley should also have a circumferential trail and maybe to big cross hatches, then pick one center city street for a dedicated bike lane (Broadway or SW TRWY) from Dowtown to the Plaza.

How much would that cost, 10-15 million maybe?

[smh]

I still don't understand why every divided boulevard in the city doesn't have a crushed gravel trail down the center of the parkway.

Totally agree. This seems like a such a great idea. We have all this unused land in the middle of the boulevards, why not put it to use? As an added bonus, if you add a path to median some people might actually stop and have a rest or otherwise enjoy themselves on these huge swaths of "parkland".

[flyingember]

I still don't understand why every divided boulevard in the city doesn't have a crushed gravel trail down the center of the parkway. Penn Valley should also have a circumferential trail and maybe to big cross hatches, then pick one center city street for a dedicated bike lane (Broadway or SW TRWY) from Dowtown to the Plaza.

How much would that cost, 10-15 million maybe?

it's not the cost of putting in a trail or painting but all the associated work.

for a median trail you suddenly are redoing traffic patterns. you need to have cuts at every cross street, little stop signs, street lights need to be friendly to pedestrians crossing between the two streets. like with a median you need to position the trail so cars can see a bike. turning right onto the cross street and hitting a bike is not the goal.

for an actual bike lane you need lights that have time for a bike to get through. I've seen low usage cross streets that go green and change to yellow almost immediately.

and the cost per mile for a good trail would cost the city a ton. The city's doing asphalt these days and that's in the $100K per mile range. painting a bike lane isn't as simple as doing a bike lane. you're adjusting the width of the driving lane, parking spots and such at the same time. the new N Oak bike lanes made the driving lanes skinnier than what they were before.

[kboish]

It is very perplexing that we don't have ANY bike lanes in our urban core.

Completely wrong.

Pennsylvania between 12th and 14th has the signs and worn paint for a marked bike lane. (not that it's in a good spot)


There's also this that's not marked on the street but there are signs with bikes on them. part of this path is dedicated for bikes north of 2nd St.
http://riverfrontheritagetrail.com/trai ... erview.htm
since you're in Columbus park, go to the Town of Kansas Bridge in the river market, walk down a flight of stairs and notice how one side has a metal bike channel for walking bikes up the stairs. it's a bike friendly path from bluffs to the bottom.

and the bottoms paths downtown are well done. the south side of Front St has a very long bike path along it

there's a pedestrian bridge from Mulkey Square Park to the westside

there's bike lanes along Pennway in the westside from 17th to 21st

so there's bike-safe paths all across downtown and they're well connected with signage telling drivers. it just needs to be marked better on the street itself

I've ridden all of the places you are talking about and im sorry but that hodge podge of mostly unmarked "trails" is not a trail network (and yes i exaggerated a bit...there technically are a few).

The riverfront trail is nice and im glad there are plans to connect it to Cliff Drive, but aside from that there are only a few bike path signs guiding you to where it connects over to the west bottoms to get you to the ped/bike bridge under 70.

Im looking for something more along the lines of chingon outlined. A real trail network that connects places. Not a four block stretch of bike lane, a riverfront trail not connected to anything, and a couple of nice ped/bike bridges with no feeder routes (though i know these "exist" on paper).

I also think the entire levy system should be opened to cyclist/joggers. I've ridden down them and they seem like they wouldn't need any improvements. Trail system up to Parkville? This is a no brainer.

I'm appreciative of what we got and I will continue to ride all over KC if they're not built, but I think a smallish investment and dedication to building these out across the DT/Westport/Plaza core would help transform the vitality of our city. It is definitely an amenity we are lacking.

[GRID]

It is very perplexing that we don't have ANY bike lanes in our urban core.

Completely wrong.

Pennsylvania between 12th and 14th has the signs and worn paint for a marked bike lane. (not that it's in a good spot)


There's also this that's not marked on the street but there are signs with bikes on them. part of this path is dedicated for bikes north of 2nd St.
http://riverfrontheritagetrail.com/trai ... erview.htm
since you're in Columbus park, go to the Town of Kansas Bridge in the river market, walk down a flight of stairs and notice how one side has a metal bike channel for walking bikes up the stairs. it's a bike friendly path from bluffs to the bottom.

and the bottoms paths downtown are well done. the south side of Front St has a very long bike path along it

there's a pedestrian bridge from Mulkey Square Park to the westside

there's bike lanes along Pennway in the westside from 17th to 21st

so there's bike-safe paths all across downtown and they're well connected with signage telling drivers. it just needs to be marked better on the street itself

Sorry, but no.

Do you travel at all? If you did, you would know what I'm talking about. This is something that just does not exist in KC. I would say St Louis is a close second, the only reason they are any better than KC is because they have Forest Park, one of the most active urban parks in the country. But their downtown may be worse than KC.

With the rivers, the boulevards, penn valley park and the lack of traffic on the arterial streets (plenty of room for bike lanes), KC could have one of the most comprehensive systems in the country and I'm confident that if such infrastructure existed in KC, it would be used, just like it's used in every other city.

I have never been a fan of developing the river front commercially, because It think it would take away from much needed infill development (crossroads, east downtown etc), but it's just flat out silly that there are not trails along the levees, that there is not some sort of well connected pedestrian bridge over the MO and KS rivers (not half baked jersey barriers thrown on existing bridges with no connections at ends). Penn Vallye should be the place to be. I have always LOVED kcpowercat's idea of connecting the two halves of PV Park with overpasses over Broadway. Grand, Main, Broadway etc, one of them should have a well thought out and designed bike lane. Not just some random paint and a few signs but a real bike lane that goes more than 500 feet. You should be able to ride from water works park in nkc to Waldo without ever leaving a well marked lane/trail and you should be able to leave the grid and use off road trails in PV Park, Bearkly park, Kaw Point etc that are well connected to each other and theirfore have tons of users all the time.

Last time we were in KC, we rented the share bikes for two hours. We were the ONLY people downtown the entire time we were there. We saw zero other bikers. Unheard of in almost any other city. Doesn't have to be like that.

Took these pics recently:

philly



pitts



dc