Bike Lanes

[Chris Stritzel]

but keep in mind, downtown can't survive without the money from the people in the burbs.

Then we're rebuilding downtown wrong.

Then Cordish best demolish their buildings to widen all streets in and around the Power and Light District and cancel any future “Light” towers for just massive parking structures. Karen from Overland Park needs all that space so she can park her Chevy Suburban with her, her husband and a single child (or not) to walk half a block to get a mediocre Taco from Fieri’s place. Then, when done, need to screech out of there like a bat outta hell and get back on the 35 to head home.

I mean if downtown can’t survive without the money from the burbs, then why is Cordish continuing to expand their residential offerings in an effort to entice suburbanites and outsiders to move in? And why do we have to build for people who are building their own downtowns so that they can get a taste of what their grandparents grew up in? Their grandparents likely had bikes too and got around with those, but oh no. Car is the way to go my friend. We can’t advance as a society without it.

Quick! Widen 69 to make a toll express lane so I can bypass a few slow drivers for a few miles so I can get downtown, speed past a pedestrian, fly into a garage and run to get my taco before going in reverse.

[shinatoo]

First, downtown could get dramatically more difficult for car users and still not be difficult. Second, is the guy that defends Cordish shutting down Grand and closing Walnut permanently really making an issue about some bike lanes and their impact on cars?

[phuqueue]

Maybe I'm wait off here but wouldn't downtown curl up and crumble if it weren't for influx of non-downtown residents who frequent the area for entertainment purposes?

I'm not saying the city is getting rid of parking for bike lanes and we all know downtown KC has a massive surplus of parking. But making it harder to get around by car and easier by bike only serves a very small group of people. I get the future argument too but I disagree with the idea we need to make the urban core "difficult to jump in and out". We already fight the stigma of being a difficult area to navigate.

Highways are for suburban transit into town, and we have no shortage of that. Pretending this specific bike lane is effecting anything is where the absurdity comes from.

I don't think the bike lanes are an issue. I was responding to the comment specifically about making it harder to get in and out of downtown being the winning strategy to a nice urban core. I don't have the math in front of me but I'd assume it's the people in the burbs who are mostly paying for all this in a round about way regardless. At least until we get downtown population to a much higher level.

It's no different than the push for more environmentally friendly forms of transportation. You make the current "dirty" ones expensive as fuck to operate, subsidize the shit out of the cleaner options and ram it down people's throats. Only hurts the end user.

Car travel is already heavily subsidized and should be more expensive and burdensome, not even just in some general moral sense (although definitely that too) but also if you believe in letting ~~~the market~~~ dictate people's behavior. As it is, you're the one "ramming" a car culture monopoly "down people's throats," not the other way around. The alternative proposal here is not "people should only be able to bike into downtown," it's "people should also be able to bike into downtown."

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Highways are for suburban transit into town, and we have no shortage of that. Pretending this specific bike lane is effecting anything is where the absurdity comes from.

I don't think the bike lanes are an issue. I was responding to the comment specifically about making it harder to get in and out of downtown being the winning strategy to a nice urban core. I don't have the math in front of me but I'd assume it's the people in the burbs who are mostly paying for all this in a round about way regardless. At least until we get downtown population to a much higher level.

It's no different than the push for more environmentally friendly forms of transportation. You make the current "dirty" ones expensive as fuck to operate, subsidize the shit out of the cleaner options and ram it down people's throats. Only hurts the end user.

Car travel is already heavily subsidized and should be more expensive and burdensome, not even just in some general moral sense (although definitely that too) but also if you believe in letting ~~~the market~~~ dictate people's behavior. As it is, you're the one "ramming" a car culture monopoly "down people's throats," not the other way around. The alternative proposal here is not "people should only be able to bike into downtown," it's "people should also be able to bike into downtown."

This. All of this.

[FangKC]

It's no different than the push for more environmentally friendly forms of transportation. You make the current "dirty" ones expensive as fuck to operate, subsidize the shit out of the cleaner options and ram it down people's throats. Only hurts the end user.

The dirty ones are killing the planet though. If we don't get that under control, everything is going to get more expensive and if the climate reaches a tipping point, it probably won't matter much since the planet will likely be only able to support a small fraction of the population. Even the Pentagon recognizes this.

https://media.defense.gov/2021/Oct/21/2 ... -FINAL.PDF

It's always amazing to me how people seem to forget that we have always made large shifts in how we live and work. People used to light their homes with whale oil. Many old houses in Kansas City still have coal shoots in their basements. We used to send messages across the country by tapping out code over telegraph lines, and before that, on horseback.

Do you realize how polluted the air was in cities when we still burned coal?

Below: Downtown St. Louis in 1940



Look Back • The day coal smoke choked St. Louis - Nov. 28, 1939

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/his ... c6d28.html

Power and Smoke: A Nation Built on Coal


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM4I8VDhoDI

DCole, did your ancestors rail against having electricity lines introduced to their community?

Our way of life, and economy, has always changed and we've adapted. In most respects, it made things better.

[FangKC]

... I don't have the math in front of me but I'd assume it's the people in the burbs who are mostly paying for all this in a round about way regardless. At least until we get downtown population to a much higher level.

I don't know how many times this chart needs to be posted to show who pays for things in KCMO. It's the relatively small narrow strip that pays for the suburban areas of the City. Most subdivisions on the edges of KCMO itself likely don't pay for themselves at all in tax revenue generated. It's more likely central city residents who are subsidizing all those less-dense suburban subdivisions.

It's very likely the vast majority of the money that is paying for the bike lanes comes from tax revenue from that narrow strip of central-west KCMO.



Another big point that needs to be made here is that parking is the probably the number one most expensive land use in that each sq. foot devoted to parking (surface and garage) deprives the City of higher tax revenue (sales, property, and earnings taxes) to support all infrastructure and services.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cnr5e0PuXxK ... _copy_link

[FangKC]

but keep in mind, downtown can't survive without the money from the people in the burbs.

Quick! Widen 69 to make a toll express lane so I can bypass a few slow drivers for a few miles so I can get downtown, speed past a pedestrian, fly into a garage and run to get my taco before going in reverse.

Indeed. There are functioning dense cities that have only one traffic lane on a street and 10-20-30 story buildings along them.

People in Kansas City are insane when it comes to traffic. They have no idea what real traffic is. lol.

[Cratedigger]

but keep in mind, downtown can't survive without the money from the people in the burbs.

Quick! Widen 69 to make a toll express lane so I can bypass a few slow drivers for a few miles so I can get downtown, speed past a pedestrian, fly into a garage and run to get my taco before going in reverse.

Indeed. There are functioning dense cities that have only one traffic lane on a street and 10-20-30 story buildings along them.

People in Kansas City are insane when it comes to traffic. They have no idea what real traffic is. lol.

+10,000

I’ve gotten used to it now but it was REALLY weird hearing these conversations or statements made when I first moved back

[DColeKC]

but keep in mind, downtown can't survive without the money from the people in the burbs.

Then we're rebuilding downtown wrong.

Then Cordish best demolish their buildings to widen all streets in and around the Power and Light District and cancel any future “Light” towers for just massive parking structures. Karen from Overland Park needs all that space so she can park her Chevy Suburban with her, her husband and a single child (or not) to walk half a block to get a mediocre Taco from Fieri’s place. Then, when done, need to screech out of there like a bat outta hell and get back on the 35 to head home.

I mean if downtown can’t survive without the money from the burbs, then why is Cordish continuing to expand their residential offerings in an effort to entice suburbanites and outsiders to move in? And why do we have to build for people who are building their own downtowns so that they can get a taste of what their grandparents grew up in? Their grandparents likely had bikes too and got around with those, but oh no. Car is the way to go my friend. We can’t advance as a society without it.

Quick! Widen 69 to make a toll express lane so I can bypass a few slow drivers for a few miles so I can get downtown, speed past a pedestrian, fly into a garage and run to get my taco before going in reverse.

We have enough smart asses on here already, so the little snide remarks can be left at home. You’ve brought some great insight to this forum, don’t ruin it with clown comments.

We wonder why we can’t get anything done. I’m not implying you don’t do bike lanes and continue to offer alternative forms of transportation. I’m simply disagreeing with making it harder for non downtown residents to get in and out. 18,000 people at a T-Mobil me concert. 17,000+ likely drove in from out of the downtown core. 40,000 at the future downtown ballpark, 38,000 will likely be from outside of the downtown core.

Of course I want downtown to be known as a neighborhood and thank you for pointing out what clearly is so obvious to me in regards to Cordish’s mission. But they didn’t spend a billion to attract residents and make it harder for outsiders to get down here.

Bike lanes. Cool. Public transportation. Great. Pedestrian friendliness over car travel (closing grand). Excellent.

Making it harder for people to get down here BEFORE other options are available and worth it. Stupid.

[DColeKC]

First, downtown could get dramatically more difficult for car users and still not be difficult. Second, is the guy that defends Cordish shutting down Grand and closing Walnut permanently really making an issue about some bike lanes and their impact on cars?

No and maybe try reading before typing. Shutting down grand is for pedestrian safety which you should be all about.

I’ve clearly stated I have no issues with the bike lanes. I do have issues with the racist and pathetic response by Chris claiming all the white men at the meeting defending their livelihoods are white trash. Why? Because they don’t like bike lanes. HOW DARE THEY!

Keep in mind, when talking about the perceived difficulty of downtown travel, we are talking about the 99.9% of metro residents who don’t know how easy it actually is.

[DColeKC]

How to get this forum up in arms.

1. Don’t 100% agree on Bike Lanes
2. Say anything to imply you’re a Republican.
3. Be a Cordish homer thus making all your opinions inferior to other members, even experience-less college students.

You all really know how to run people off. I find myself checking back less and less because I know bullshit argumentative trash responses are waiting for almost anything I say.

Edit: College student comment was not directed at you Anthony. You’re a fantastic member here.

I’m out though. This place no longer offers any value to my life. I can’t make a comment on anything without it being attacked with something about Cordish or without some kind of smart ass comments. I don’t see anyone else get this much shit and I’m not sure anyone is qualified to actually dish out that much bullshit.

Because I’ve offered a bunch of information before it was reported elsewhere, I can’t have my own opinions and it’s assumed all my opinions come from a pro-Cordish aspect and not a downtown resident and or downtown office holder. (I see the bike lanes from my office. I see them rarely used. But the future!)

I’m nothing but a huge downtown fan and advocate. I’ll get out of here myself before Mean bans me or someone try’s to doxx me……. Again.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

First, downtown could get dramatically more difficult for car users and still not be difficult. Second, is the guy that defends Cordish shutting down Grand and closing Walnut permanently really making an issue about some bike lanes and their impact on cars?

No and maybe try reading before typing. Shutting down grand is for pedestrian safety which you should be all about.

I’ve clearly stated I have no issues with the bike lanes. I do have issues with the racist and pathetic response by Chris claiming all the white men at the meeting defending their livelihoods are white trash. Why? Because they don’t like bike lanes. HOW DARE THEY!

Keep in mind, when talking about the perceived difficulty of downtown travel, we are talking about the 99.9% of metro residents who don’t know how easy it actually is.

Did you go to the meeting? Because the outside appearance of all of the individuals who were opposed to the bike lane was very much a white trash asthetic. On top of their actions, and general desire to hear absolutely no opinion outside of their own, yes, Chris was absolutely correct in his assessment. Also for the record, I don’t think Chris, who is very much white, can be racist towards other white folks, but I digress.

How to get this forum up in arms.

1. Don’t 100% agree on Bike Lanes
2. Say anything to imply you’re a Republican.
3. Be a Cordish homer thus making all your opinions inferior to other members, even experience-less college students.

You all really know how to run people off. I find myself checking back less and less because I know bullshit argumentative trash responses are waiting for almost anything I say.

You are very much using a 10,000 foot view on what you listed above to paint yourself as a victim here and it isn’t a good look. You act like you’re not the one to constantly stir up shit in the politics thread as well; but since you mentioned it, It’s also not about not agreeing with these lanes 100%. The utility of the entire corridor of Truman hasn’t been affected outside of maybe the raised issues of some business owners about deliveries. Parking was maintained, travel lanes in each direction were maintained, and the center turn lane was maintained. Cars can still easily come and go from the suburbs to downtown visa versa. To pretend that this impedes that ability is intellectually dishonest. It’s just not a great perspective to agree with folks who throw a temper tantrum when it comes to not getting their way, and who now intend to go scorched earth on ALL BIKE LANES IN THE CITY! That’s not a reasonable stance to have, don’t try to legitimize it.

Outside of the politics thread people really couldn’t give a fuck less what your political leaning is. What people do care about is when someone claims they’re for building a better KC, a more dense and walkable/bikeable, transit friendly city and metro, then when a project pops up that has the ability to do that well, especially for an underserved part of the community; you take an asinine stance that the business owners have taken, which is a zero change mentality for said corridor.

Finally NO ONE CARES IF YOU ADVOCATE FOR CORDISH! However, when people bring up valid criticisms of their model of development, you’re the first one to throw your self onto the sword. Maybe acknowledge that they’ve tapered off in their stature in the last couple years? Sure they did a great job to kickstart downtown when no one else did, it’s not like they didn’t profit off of it. They have numerous empty commercials bays, they close multiple thoroughfares downtown regularly, usually for an unjustified amount of pedestrian traffic. They have no real innovation and no desire to push the boundaries with their new developments downtown, but seem quick to cry when someone else tries to do the same in their vicinity.

Take this how you will, and since I’m not even a college student, never been, I imagine you’ll look down on my opining that much more. However, when a pretty solid consensus is reached in a group of people who’s only interaction really is this forum about another one, might be some time to self reflect on why that is? Cheers my friend, hope you have a great day. Go Chiefs

[Chris Stritzel]

Then we're rebuilding downtown wrong.

Then Cordish best demolish their buildings to widen all streets in and around the Power and Light District and cancel any future “Light” towers for just massive parking structures. Karen from Overland Park needs all that space so she can park her Chevy Suburban with her, her husband and a single child (or not) to walk half a block to get a mediocre Taco from Fieri’s place. Then, when done, need to screech out of there like a bat outta hell and get back on the 35 to head home.

I mean if downtown can’t survive without the money from the burbs, then why is Cordish continuing to expand their residential offerings in an effort to entice suburbanites and outsiders to move in? And why do we have to build for people who are building their own downtowns so that they can get a taste of what their grandparents grew up in? Their grandparents likely had bikes too and got around with those, but oh no. Car is the way to go my friend. We can’t advance as a society without it.

Quick! Widen 69 to make a toll express lane so I can bypass a few slow drivers for a few miles so I can get downtown, speed past a pedestrian, fly into a garage and run to get my taco before going in reverse.

We have enough smart asses on here already, so the little snide remarks can be left at home. You’ve brought some great insight to this forum, don’t ruin it with clown comments.

I'm not the one who starts crap in the politics thread to elicit a reaction out of people. I bring genuine opinions to the public square because I want things to improve here and I want to have productive discussions with people of differing views. These aren't clown comments. There's enough of that elsewhere. We need to have the tough discussions about the future and that's something I believe every user on this forum agrees with. People won't always agree. That's fine. But we must not lose track of an end goal - a successful compromise, something Mr. Atomic and his crew and people of similar mindset do not want.

We wonder why we can’t get anything done. I’m not implying you don’t do bike lanes and continue to offer alternative forms of transportation. I’m simply disagreeing with making it harder for non downtown residents to get in and out. 18,000 people at a T-Mobil me concert. 17,000+ likely drove in from out of the downtown core. 40,000 at the future downtown ballpark, 38,000 will likely be from outside of the downtown core.

Of course I want downtown to be known as a neighborhood and thank you for pointing out what clearly is so obvious to me in regards to Cordish’s mission. But they didn’t spend a billion to attract residents and make it harder for outsiders to get down here.

Bike lanes. Cool. Public transportation. Great. Pedestrian friendliness over car travel (closing grand). Excellent.

Making it harder for people to get down here BEFORE other options are available and worth it. Stupid.

I get it. Having all these suburbanites come downtown and have to get around must always be a priority. I don't know how other cities can do it with relative ease even without the transit infrastructure to handle the rapid influx and exit of suburban visitors. Suburban Kansas Citians, and people within the city limits, can adapt to the changes fairly easily. It's going to be demonstrated in the North Loop in the coming years. Downtown KC has enough parking to park every visitor and their sibling.

Major north-south thoroughfares are typically wide enough to handle the influx. Broadway, Oak, and Grand are plenty wide for the increased traffic volume. These roads all lead to different highways. Waiting 15 minutes to exit downtown after a concert or game is a minimal inconvenience when compared to other cities. People can deal with it. I assure everyone.

I do have issues with the racist and pathetic response by Chris claiming all the white men at the meeting defending their livelihoods are white trash. Why? Because they don’t like bike lanes. HOW DARE THEY!

What should I have called them then? The good ole' boys? The grayshirts? The green hats? They were an organized group of people who likely only come into the city to be at their business for a couple hours per day. In St. Louis, the term "hoosier" would perfectly describe these guys, especially Mr. Atomic and friends. Their livelihoods aren't at risk over a bike lane they illegally park in to "own the libs, soyboys and commies". Their livelihoods are at risk over their own business decisions. If they can't adapt to the bike lanes, and have to blame them for their business failure, may I suggest an early retirement?

I’m out though. This place no longer offers any value to my life. I can’t make a comment on anything without it being attacked with something about Cordish or without some kind of smart ass comments. I don’t see anyone else get this much shit and I’m not sure anyone is qualified to actually dish out that much bullshit.

Because I’ve offered a bunch of information before it was reported elsewhere, I can’t have my own opinions and it’s assumed all my opinions come from a pro-Cordish aspect and not a downtown resident and or downtown office holder. (I see the bike lanes from my office. I see them rarely used. But the future!)

I’m nothing but a huge downtown fan and advocate. I’ll get out of here myself before Mean bans me or someone try’s to doxx me……. Again.

You can stay... but don't inject the most random comments into the politics thread or make grand comments about future plans by Cordish before they're confirmed. Most developers don't post what they're going to do next. Their architects and advisors really don't because their goose would be cooked. They all can hint, but never specify specifics until the deal is signed. I know so because I have experience in this. Although the stuff I put out there is meant to test the waters.

[TheUrbanRoo]

I’m out though. This place no longer offers any value to my life. I can’t make a comment on anything without it being attacked

I’m nothing but a huge downtown fan and advocate. I’ll get out of here myself before Mean bans me or someone try’s to doxx me……. Again.

Hold up DCole don't leave just yet. We already lose Flyingember & Alkali, so we don't want to keep losing members. I suppose I can't speak for others, but I appreciate your takes & insight. Please don't go. It's good to have someone who knows the insights of Cordish.

[KCPowercat]

Bike lanes make street streets for all. I don't care if 1 person a day bikes in then, still makes everyone safer

[shinatoo]

I’m out though. This place no longer offers any value to my life. I can’t make a comment on anything without it being attacked

I’m nothing but a huge downtown fan and advocate. I’ll get out of here myself before Mean bans me or someone try’s to doxx me……. Again.

Hold up DCole don't leave just yet. We already lose Flyingember & Alkali, so we don't want to keep losing members. I suppose I can't speak for others, but I appreciate your takes & insight. Please don't go. It's good to have someone who knows the insights of Cordish.

Hmmmmm, I wonder what ever happened to Alkali?

[mean]

I was wondering the same thing and went back to look (I guess he left during a time I was myself on hiatus due to being completely burnt out, it comes in waves) and (I am not a psychologist, but) it appears to me as though when his "we can do anything! we are the best! we just have to believe!" combination of youthful naivety, inability to read statistics without coloring them with confirmation bias, and magical thinking along the lines of The Secret continually collided with reality, the discomfort of the cognitive dissonance caused him to get into fights, and eventually jump ship rather than reckon with his bullshit and realign himself. Which really is very unfortunate, I absolutely love that kind of energy--we just need it to be aligned with cold, hard reality, not persistent whimsical fantasy and wishful thinking.

[grovester]

I feel like they are still here in spirit.

[normalthings]

I’m out though. This place no longer offers any value to my life. I can’t make a comment on anything without it being attacked

I’m nothing but a huge downtown fan and advocate. I’ll get out of here myself before Mean bans me or someone try’s to doxx me……. Again.

Hold up DCole don't leave just yet. We already lose Flyingember & Alkali, so we don't want to keep losing members. I suppose I can't speak for others, but I appreciate your takes & insight. Please don't go. It's good to have someone who knows the insights of Cordish.

Hmmmmm, I wonder what ever happened to Alkali?

Made a new account maybe

[DaveKCMO]

[We already lose Flyingember & Alkali, so we don't want to keep losing members.

FYI -- we've had a net gain, and those two were pedantic twits that deserved a threat of the quiet chair.