Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

[langosta]

Interesting. I didn't know that about the settlement issues. Not that Hallmark would have kept it working anyway. That was such a nice property when it was a Hyatt. The Skies, the duck club, all the common areas were top notch. I have stayed there several times since it changed to a Sheraton but have not stayed there in several years since there are just too many better options now.

The last few times it felt like a giant Holiday Inn that caters to groups like youth sports and stuff that needs lots of cheap rooms. That's fine and all, but it's a pretty big waste of what was a really nice hotel and not just a giant motel which is what it feels like now.

I was wondering how it is today since it was starting to feel pretty run down in some areas last time I stayed there. The elevators seemed really run down for example.

I still think the hotel has the bones and location to be upgraded back to a higher flag. There are plenty under the Marriot umbrella that would be better than Sheraton or at least bring it up to modern Sheraton standards. Since Marriot merged with starwood they have tried to make Sheratons a more consistent higher tier brand. I don't see that hotel even staying a Sheraton much longer if they don't do a major renovation and bring back more full service amenities.

Most of the named Kansas City urban core hotels are question in-regards to the brands renew their contracts (unless major renovations occur). I know of at least one that won't get re-signed even if they do renovate and the Sheraton and Weston are going to need to renovate.

[FangKC]

Did anyone else go on the tour on Saturday? The answer about Skies ever rotating again is a definitive no.

The former American Restaurant interior.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cye9zZDuowR ... BiNWFlZA==

https://www.instagram.com/p/CyPXwaWL6En ... BiNWFlZA==

[smh]

Interesting. I didn't know that about the settlement issues. Not that Hallmark would have kept it working anyway. That was such a nice property when it was a Hyatt. The Skies, the duck club, all the common areas were top notch. I have stayed there several times since it changed to a Sheraton but have not stayed there in several years since there are just too many better options now.

The last few times it felt like a giant Holiday Inn that caters to groups like youth sports and stuff that needs lots of cheap rooms. That's fine and all, but it's a pretty big waste of what was a really nice hotel and not just a giant motel which is what it feels like now.

I was wondering how it is today since it was starting to feel pretty run down in some areas last time I stayed there. The elevators seemed really run down for example.

I still think the hotel has the bones and location to be upgraded back to a higher flag. There are plenty under the Marriot umbrella that would be better than Sheraton or at least bring it up to modern Sheraton standards. Since Marriot merged with starwood they have tried to make Sheratons a more consistent higher tier brand. I don't see that hotel even staying a Sheraton much longer if they don't do a major renovation and bring back more full service amenities.

My wife is of a similar mind to you. Growing up her family always stayed at the Hyatt and it was a treat. She is now regularly in KC for work in the Crown Center area and always opts for Westin because it is much more up to date. I also agree that Hyatt/Sheraton may even have a better location now than 20 years ago. It is an easy walk to breweries and restaurants in East Crossroads for example.

[FangKC]

Winter Skies returns; Kansas City holiday pop-up in former restaurant returns

Back by popular demand, Skies will once again transform into a winter wonderland pop-up.

Starting Nov. 16, Kansas Citians can reserve an enchanting evening on the 42nd floor of the Sheraton Kansas City at Crown Center.
...

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/wi ... nt-returns

https://www.facebook.com/SkiesKansasCity/

https://www.instagram.com/skieskansascity/?hl=en

[TheBigChuckbowski]

Marriott has has very little to do with the removal of restaurants, bars, the decommissioning of the activity deck, and things like the removal of the conversation pit in the Westin lobby. Those were all Hallmark decisions

Oh, another big drop was that the Hall family never envisioned Halls anchoring the mall. They paid a lot of money to build a space that they thought they could unload and no department store operators showed any interest, thus Halls became the loss leader for the development.

What are the Halls doing? Honestly. The sports deck and hotel topper spaces have an insane amount of untapped potential. On top of that, they have acres of developable urban land next to a future streetcar stop being used as surface lots for about 10 cars a day. They mothball most of Halls and continue to let the mall just have nothing attractive to bring people in. It seems like any other operator would have Crown Center humming instead of being completely stagnant. There's so much potential there and they seem to have no interest in pursuing it.

[KCMHGuy]

What are the Halls doing? Honestly. The sports deck and hotel topper spaces have an insane amount of untapped potential. On top of that, they have acres of developable urban land next to a future streetcar stop being used as surface lots for about 10 cars a day. They mothball most of Halls and continue to let the mall just have nothing attractive to bring people in. It seems like any other operator would have Crown Center humming instead of being completely stagnant. There's so much potential there and they seem to have no interest in pursuing it.

Regarding their land holdings, they have very particular views on what should be built on their land, and have limited incentives to sell land to developers who aren't in line with their master plan.

A few years ago, we tried to acquire one of their larger parcels off of Main Street for an apartment project with a smaller grocery anchor, and they rejected the otherwise market offer, as they were really hoping for a new office tower (either anchored or developed on spec).

[FangKC]

They don't even seem interested in developing under their original master plan. They never built all those apartment buildings that were on the south edge even though they used to have thousands of potential renters in their employee base. Now there are a lot fewer employees, so that potential was lost as well.

[kcjak]

Crown Center got hit hard by the pandemic and is finally starting to get some momentum so maybe there's still hope. Hallmark is consolidating all of the business on the upper floors of the main McGee building, so the old original building that fronts Grand will be empty soon - will be interesting to see what becomes of that.

But yeah, the old American Restaurant, Skies and the top of the Westin are all underutilized.

[FangKC]

Crown Center Lands Office Tenants, Credits Vibrant Environment

Crown Center is bucking the sluggish national and local office market trend, adding or renewing leases this year totaling 167,000 square feet with the biggest catch the Kutak Rock law firm.
...
Statistics indicate the downtown Kansas City office market is a leader in the nation when it comes to employees returning to the office after the disruptions of the Covid pandemic.

Tommy Wilson, director of business recruitment and research for the Downtown Council, said Kansas City ranked sixth among 26 cities with 74 percent of its workforce back in the office.
...
The biggest new tenant at Crown Center is the Kansas City office of Kutak Rock. The law firm chose it for its new location, leasing 23,479 square-feet of space.
...
Another law firm currently at Crown Center, Baker Sterchi, expanded its space from 27,566 to 47,200 square feet after it merged with Foland Wickens in January. \
...
The retail space at Crown Center is almost fully leased, which has helped with attracting office tenants, she said.

Other new tenants are: City Year, Inc., 4,100 square feet; a marketing firm, 5,072 square feet; Missouri State Public Defenders, 10,544 square feet; Rapid Logistics, 1,363 square feet; Welch & Associates, 1,991 square feet, and Pershing Perk Coffee Shops, 1,684 square feet.

In addition to Baker Sterchi expanding its lease, the Hardwick law firm renewed its lease for 6,673 square feet.

https://cityscenekc.com/crown-center-l ... ea5eRKZcl8

[herrfrank]

Despite all of the naysayers, Crown Center is an incredibly attractive office market for small businesses -- the amenities and parking offered by the complex makes it stand out downtown.

[Highlander]

Crown Center Lands Office Tenants, Credits Vibrant Environment

Crown Center is bucking the sluggish national and local office market trend, adding or renewing leases this year totaling 167,000 square feet with the biggest catch the Kutak Rock law firm.
...
Statistics indicate the downtown Kansas City office market is a leader in the nation when it comes to employees returning to the office after the disruptions of the Covid pandemic.

Tommy Wilson, director of business recruitment and research for the Downtown Council, said Kansas City ranked sixth among 26 cities with 74 percent of its workforce back in the office.
...
The biggest new tenant at Crown Center is the Kansas City office of Kutak Rock. The law firm chose it for its new location, leasing 23,479 square-feet of space.
...
Another law firm currently at Crown Center, Baker Sterchi, expanded its space from 27,566 to 47,200 square feet after it merged with Foland Wickens in January. \
...
The retail space at Crown Center is almost fully leased, which has helped with attracting office tenants, she said.

Other new tenants are: City Year, Inc., 4,100 square feet; a marketing firm, 5,072 square feet; Missouri State Public Defenders, 10,544 square feet; Rapid Logistics, 1,363 square feet; Welch & Associates, 1,991 square feet, and Pershing Perk Coffee Shops, 1,684 square feet.

In addition to Baker Sterchi expanding its lease, the Hardwick law firm renewed its lease for 6,673 square feet.

https://cityscenekc.com/crown-center-l ... ea5eRKZcl8

It would be nice if downtown office leasing was more than just robbing Peter to pay Paul. The former Waddell Reed Tower is being occupied by Blue Cross/Blue Shield that will abandon their downtown office on Main (near Crown Center) and Kutak Rock will abandon their space in the former Payless Cashway building on Main to go to Crown Center. That little stretch of Main just north of Pershing has lost the bulk of its tenants in the last year or so.

[empires228]

Marriott has has very little to do with the removal of restaurants, bars, the decommissioning of the activity deck, and things like the removal of the conversation pit in the Westin lobby. Those were all Hallmark decisions

Oh, another big drop was that the Hall family never envisioned Halls anchoring the mall. They paid a lot of money to build a space that they thought they could unload and no department store operators showed any interest, thus Halls became the loss leader for the development.

What are the Halls doing? Honestly. The sports deck and hotel topper spaces have an insane amount of untapped potential. On top of that, they have acres of developable urban land next to a future streetcar stop being used as surface lots for about 10 cars a day. They mothball most of Halls and continue to let the mall just have nothing attractive to bring people in. It seems like any other operator would have Crown Center humming instead of being completely stagnant. There's so much potential there and they seem to have no interest in pursuing it.

A decent chunk of the property is going to be placed on the national register of historic places in the near future as well. Conveniently after they’ve torn out some of the more interesting features at the Westin, the mall, and installed the worlds most boring carpet inside The American. In theory, this should at least protect the ice terrace and the bluffs fountain inside the Westin lol. The other thing I forgot to add was the garden walk in the Westin is also permanently closed because of ADA Regulations. That was the spokespersons direct statement on the tour. We saw some pictures of the gardens when it opened and they were very nice. We heard a lot about, and from more than one guide, on how great it is to have both properties under the Marriott umbrella because now they can market them as one property. Last I knew, the hospital was leasing part of the Sheraton for sleep studies. Some of the issues with the Westin stem from the Hall family deciding to double the room count at the last minute without doubling the planned meeting or amenity space. They said that’s why the hotel has had to take out the original lobby bar, Trader Vic’s, and a portion of the mall’s second floor retail space.

[GRID]

What are the Halls doing? Honestly. The sports deck and hotel topper spaces have an insane amount of untapped potential. On top of that, they have acres of developable urban land next to a future streetcar stop being used as surface lots for about 10 cars a day. They mothball most of Halls and continue to let the mall just have nothing attractive to bring people in. It seems like any other operator would have Crown Center humming instead of being completely stagnant. There's so much potential there and they seem to have no interest in pursuing it.

Regarding their land holdings, they have very particular views on what should be built on their land, and have limited incentives to sell land to developers who aren't in line with their master plan.

A few years ago, we tried to acquire one of their larger parcels off of Main Street for an apartment project with a smaller grocery anchor, and they rejected the otherwise market offer, as they were really hoping for a new office tower (either anchored or developed on spec).

I have never understood this. I'm not a developer, but what is the point of just sitting on land for decades when it would be highly desirable and probably profitable to develop it? It was nice to see Hallmark sell some of its land over near Union Hill for development. They need to sell the rest. No point in keeping it for some fantasy office tower that has been planned since 1975.

[empires228]

What are the Halls doing? Honestly. The sports deck and hotel topper spaces have an insane amount of untapped potential. On top of that, they have acres of developable urban land next to a future streetcar stop being used as surface lots for about 10 cars a day. They mothball most of Halls and continue to let the mall just have nothing attractive to bring people in. It seems like any other operator would have Crown Center humming instead of being completely stagnant. There's so much potential there and they seem to have no interest in pursuing it.

Regarding their land holdings, they have very particular views on what should be built on their land, and have limited incentives to sell land to developers who aren't in line with their master plan.

A few years ago, we tried to acquire one of their larger parcels off of Main Street for an apartment project with a smaller grocery anchor, and they rejected the otherwise market offer, as they were really hoping for a new office tower (either anchored or developed on spec).

I have never understood this. I'm not a developer, but what is the point of just sitting on land for decades when it would be highly desirable and probably profitable to develop it? It was nice to see Hallmark sell some of its land over near Union Hill for development. They need to sell the rest. No point in keeping it for some fantasy office tower that has been planned since 1975.

I keep remembering things. The facilities manager told us that Hallmark has a new comprehensive plan put together for the property that includes a lot of high density, but low rise housing to the south of the plaza. It has yet to be submitted to the city.

[DMNBT_RCJH]

Crown Center Lands Office Tenants, Credits Vibrant Environment

Crown Center is bucking the sluggish national and local office market trend, adding or renewing leases this year totaling 167,000 square feet with the biggest catch the Kutak Rock law firm.
...
Statistics indicate the downtown Kansas City office market is a leader in the nation when it comes to employees returning to the office after the disruptions of the Covid pandemic.

Tommy Wilson, director of business recruitment and research for the Downtown Council, said Kansas City ranked sixth among 26 cities with 74 percent of its workforce back in the office.
...
The biggest new tenant at Crown Center is the Kansas City office of Kutak Rock. The law firm chose it for its new location, leasing 23,479 square-feet of space.
...
Another law firm currently at Crown Center, Baker Sterchi, expanded its space from 27,566 to 47,200 square feet after it merged with Foland Wickens in January. \
...
The retail space at Crown Center is almost fully leased, which has helped with attracting office tenants, she said.

Other new tenants are: City Year, Inc., 4,100 square feet; a marketing firm, 5,072 square feet; Missouri State Public Defenders, 10,544 square feet; Rapid Logistics, 1,363 square feet; Welch & Associates, 1,991 square feet, and Pershing Perk Coffee Shops, 1,684 square feet.

In addition to Baker Sterchi expanding its lease, the Hardwick law firm renewed its lease for 6,673 square feet.

https://cityscenekc.com/crown-center-l ... ea5eRKZcl8

It would be nice if downtown office leasing was more than just robbing Peter to pay Paul. The former Waddell Reed Tower is being occupied by Blue Cross/Blue Shield that will abandon their downtown office on Main (near Crown Center) and Kutak Rock will abandon their space in the former Payless Cashway building on Main to go to Crown Center. That little stretch of Main just north of Pershing has lost the bulk of its tenants in the last year or so.

I mean, I agree, but that’s going to be the state of the office market for quite a while. Don’t see many larger corporate relocations coming down the pike.

The great news about the BlueKC move is that it opens up that entire parcel for a comprehensive redevelopment of that site and Washington square park. I think it’s one of the best development parcels to come on the market in quite some time. Hopefully someone with a big vision ends up acquiring the property. Tear down the current office space and build something truly iconic….or I think we’d all take a high density mid-rise at this point.

[im2kull]

Charges filed and a couple of arrests made (unfortunately only for 2 of the 4 shooters) relating to the Jan 17th shooting that injured 6 people at Crown Center. I really hope we can get this stuff under control. Already seeing more flight from the plaza, CC, and downtown now. Need to change the narrative quickly!

54 spent shell casings
Priors for violent crimes
Known gang affiliation

Not arrested until at the airport boarding a flight to Seattle, weeks later.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/c ... 52411.html

[Metro]

Charges filed and a couple of arrests made (unfortunately only for 2 of the 4 shooters) relating to the Jan 17th shooting that injured 6 people at Crown Center. I really hope we can get this stuff under control. Already seeing more flight from the plaza, CC, and downtown now. Need to change the narrative quickly!

54 spent shell casings
Priors for violent crimes
Known gang affiliation

Not arrested until at the airport boarding a flight to Seattle, weeks later.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/c ... 52411.html

Never underestimate the stupidity of the voters in this city