KCRag Forum

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 3:00 pm

AllThingsKC wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 11:11 am

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 8:47 am An avg 19,000 attendance for 17 days of activation plus a handful of other cup games and concerts. So let’s say a comfortable 30 events. How does that somehow justify the land area taken up in an urban area?

You've just described the T-Mobile Center.

The T-Mobile center hosts over 100 events annually. They have more activation than a downtown stadium for a World Series team would have. Not to mention the lack of a major sports tenant keeps it active more often than similar sized venues in other cities.

The T-Mobile Center has 3 events this June and 3 events this July.

AllThingsKC wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 3:09 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 3:00 pm

AllThingsKC wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 11:11 am

You've just described the T-Mobile Center.

The T-Mobile center hosts over 100 events annually. They have more activation than a downtown stadium for a World Series team would have. Not to mention the lack of a major sports tenant keeps it active more often than similar sized venues in other cities.

The T-Mobile Center has 3 events this June and 3 events this July. Hard to get to 100 events annually when you have 3 to 4 events each month.

Per Visit KC’s website

T-Mobile Center hosts more than 100 events a year, including world class concerts, sporting events and family shows.

Now that very well can be pre-COVID numbers still, but when you take into account March Madness, multi-day concerts and shows that take up an entire weekend, and some weeklong events, it isn’t far off. Cirque du soleil alone is a 4 day event with 5 shows coming up this week.

Source: https://news.visitkc.com/facts/t-mobile-center

100 "events"? Sure. Something going on 100 days out of 365? No.

Looks like there are about 60 days with an event in all of 2023. You can count them here: http://www.t-mobilecenter.com/events

An MLS stadium wouldn't be that much different. Even if it's only about 30 days with an event, the heart of the MLS season is the Summer, when the T-Mobile Center isn't as busy.

And the World Series team you mentioned would get you 81-93 home dates with about double the seating capacity.

AllThingsKC wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 3:40 pm 100 "events"? Sure. Something going on 100 days out of 365? No.

Looks like there are about 60 days with an event in all of 2023. You can count them here: http://www.t-mobilecenter.com/events

An MLS stadium wouldn't be that much different. Even if it's only about 30 days with an event, the heart of the MLS season is the Summer, when the T-Mobile Center isn't as busy.

And the World Series team you mentioned would get you 81-93 home dates with about double the seating capacity.

100 events would mean 100 periods of activation, and new people coming into the area, would it not? Even with 60 days of activity, outside of things like PBR and Basketball, you’ll have a different group of people coming to attend said event, even if there’s multiple ones in the same day (circus and concerts)

Again, best case for an MLS stadium is 30 events, and days of activation. I fail to see how the two sites are comparable in the urban context, as one is activated pretty much year round, and the other has a limited season that is also taken up by a professional sports team.

Believe me, I’d very much prefer the World Series team I mentioned in a downtown site over even the T-Mobile, but I’d much prefer the T-mobile to an urban MLS stadium. Urban-adjacent wouldn’t be bad to me, but in the heart I don’t much see the value unless in the right spot, where uses are greatly limited as is.

STL is a great example of otherwise unusable or restricted use space being utilized, and if that can be done I’m all for it. As it stands though, I don’t think we should elevate this in priority, personally.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 4:20 pm 100 events would mean 100 periods of activation, and new people coming into the area, would it not?

No, that's not what that would mean.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 4:20 pm Again, best case for an MLS stadium is 30 events, and days of activation. I fail to see how the two sites are comparable in the urban context, as one is activated pretty much year round, and the other has a limited season that is also taken up by a professional sports team.

Because as the T-Mobile stands now, its busy season is Winter, while an MLS Stadium's busiest season would be Summer.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 4:20 pm Believe me, I’d very much prefer the World Series team I mentioned in a downtown site over even the T-Mobile, but I’d much prefer the T-mobile to an urban MLS stadium. Urban-adjacent wouldn’t be bad to me, but in the heart I don’t much see the value unless in the right spot, where uses are greatly limited as is.

It doesn't have to be one or the other though. We can have multiple venues.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 4:20 pm STL is a great example of otherwise unusable or restricted use space being utilized, and if that can be done I’m all for it. As it stands though, I don’t think we should elevate this in priority, personally.

Agreed - this is not a priority. But if St. Louis can support 3 team venues plus a dome with events, I don't see why KC couldn't do something similar. (Not that I'm suggesting Arrowhead should be downtown).

AllThingsKC wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 3:09 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 3:00 pm

AllThingsKC wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 11:11 am

You've just described the T-Mobile Center.

The T-Mobile center hosts over 100 events annually. They have more activation than a downtown stadium for a World Series team would have. Not to mention the lack of a major sports tenant keeps it active more often than similar sized venues in other cities.

The T-Mobile Center has 3 events this June and 3 events this July.

I noticed this when checking the arena for events while in town. That arena is not that busy anymore and when you include arenas with pro teams, it's probably one of the least active in the country. I'm starting to think getting a pro team in that arena should be a top priority along with MLB downtown. Forget about Sporting at least for a while. It's not really worth the return on the investment. Not to mention that's got to be at least 15 years out if it ever happens.

The location of Sporting stadium is terrible. But it's there now and I don't see them leaving Kansas. Would be cool if the Current started out drawing them in their new stadium.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 8:06 pm I noticed this when checking the arena for events while in town. That arena is not that busy anymore and when you include arenas with pro teams, it's probably one of the least active in the country. I'm starting to think getting a pro team in that arena should be a top priority along with MLB downtown. Forget about Sporting at least for a while. It's not really worth the return on the investment. Not to mention that's got to be at least 15 years out if it ever happens.

The location of Sporting stadium is terrible. But it's there now and I don't see them leaving Kansas. Would be cool if the Current started out drawing them in their new stadium.

The incentives for putting a sports team downtown will drop with each new one that moves there. They’ll throw good money at the 1st one and then it will be more and more difficult to get the money. If Sporting was at all smart, they would try to jump the Royals or an arena team. I think if DT has the Royals and a potential arena team, the window for Sporting closes altogether.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 8:06 pm I noticed this when checking the arena for events while in town. That arena is not that busy anymore and when you include arenas with pro teams, it's probably one of the least active in the country.

While 6 total events for June and July sounds bad, what arena has more during that time?

Los Angeles: Crypto.com Arena has 8 events in June (only 1 is non-WNBA) and 10 events in July (3 are non-WNBA). So 18 total events (5 non-WNBA).

San Francisco: Chase Center has 11 events in June (7 are yoga/dance classes) and 2 events in July. 13 total events (6 non-yoga)

Tampa: Amalie Arena has 6 events in June, 2 events in July. 8 total events.

Dallas: American Airlines Center has 1 event in June, 4 events in July. 5 total events.

Cincinnati: Heritage Bank Center has 1 event in June, no events in July, 1 event in August. Even when given an extra month, that's 2 total events.

St. Louis: Enterprise Center has 3 events in June, 3 events in July. 6 total events.

All of the above venues have anchor tenants. All of the above metro areas are comparable to or larger than KC. So I'd say the T-Mobile Center is holding its own against venues in much larger cities. At least in the Summer.

^ I guess so. I guess I didn't realize how slow a major arena can get. All the more reason to bring a team to town. I'm not sure I buy the idea that concerts alone are better than having a pro tenant. It might be for the financials of the arena alone, but not really the city as a whole.

GRID wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 8:40 am ^ I guess so. I guess I didn't realize how slow a major arena can get. All the more reason to bring a team to town. I'm not sure I buy the idea that concerts alone are better than having a pro tenant. It might be for the financials of the arena alone, but not really the city as a whole.

The consistency of a tenant would certainly help P&L businesses better forecast for crowds. The peaks and valleys there are frightening

Arenas will always be slow in the summer, Concerts, monster truck/motocross move outdoors to places like Arrowhead, and Sandstone

brewcrew1000 wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 10:35 am Arenas will always be slow in the summer, Concerts, monster truck/motocross move outdoors to places like Arrowhead, and Sandstone

I think the Arena Football League took advantage of this by having their season in arenas during the summer. They probably got cheap rent because the arena was trying to fill dates. It looks like the league is going to start up again in 2024.

Watched the boys on tv in Tucson today. They look good. Hoping they have a great upcoming home stand.
Didn't recognize the stadium as Mercy. Thought they where in Portland but was wrong.

U.S. Soccer to build national training center, HQ in Atlanta
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/ ... hq-atlanta

What does this mean for the facility in Kansas City, KS?

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:47 pm U.S. Soccer to build national training center, HQ in Atlanta
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/ ... hq-atlanta

What does this mean for the facility in Kansas City, KS?

KCK is the National Development Center, vs. National Training Center. I have no idea what the difference is.

I guess when you give 50 million you get to decide where it is.

KCK is national development center, mostly for coaching/refereeing education (& SKC). ATL makes sense for national team with many now in Europe, direct/shorter flights vs LA.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:47 pm U.S. Soccer to build national training center, HQ in Atlanta
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/ ... hq-atlanta

What does this mean for the facility in Kansas City, KS?

Here's from an article last year.

https://ussoccerplayers.com/2022/01/us- ... ncept.html

In 2018, a comparable arrangement with Sporting Kansas City produced the $75m Compass Minerals National Performance Center. The Federation dubbed it the National Development Center to help distinguish it from the Carson site. The “soccer village” serves as Sporting’s training ground and the base of the Federation’s coaching education programs. It also anchors a “STAR bond district,” an economic development initiative that provided upfront state financing.

By all accounts, it’s comfortable and well-appointed with cutting-edge technology and located at the very center of the country. The senior national teams have only occasionally visited for extended periods, however. Climate is a big reason why, as Midwestern winters make it a less appealing venue in the cold months. That’s why Berhalter and his USWNT counterparts have often chosen warmer places like Austin, Texas, Chula Vista, California, and Bradenton, Fort Lauderdale, and Orlando in Florida during those times of the year.

Sounds like the KS facility really wasn't heavily used at least according to this article.

I mean it's used by SKC every day, never was meant to be a base for the national teams (which has been in LA, but also not heavily used by them).

I've come to learn that anything official from USSF is usually a scam. I've had a few experiences.

San Jose is out here saying their park is outdated despite being 8 years old and that the smaller seating capacity prevents them from making it to championships thanks to revenue loss. If that's the case for them, shouldn't Children's Mercy Park being an absolute money burner? PayPal Park isn't in the best of areas location wise, but it beats Children's Mercy. It's also just about 500 seats smaller than Children's Mercy.
https://twitter.com/FavianRenkel/status ... _&ref_url=