OFFICIAL: Power & Light District

[tat2kc]

what do folks think about the "competition" between the Legends and Downtown Live? I really don't think there will be much. Although KCK does have the speedway and cabelas, and NFM, I am convinced that the Legends is going to appeal to retailers like Virgin, or Hard Rock, or some of the other big names. I really can't see a downtown lawyer getting off work at 5 are driving west to an ESPN Zone to watch a game.

Downtown live can draw on the 90,000 workers between brush creek and the river. They can draw from tourists at Crown Center and the Plaza. They can draw on the conventioneers. They are so centrally located that they can draw from most anywhere in the metro. You can be downtown from anywhere in the metro in 20 to 30 minutes, which is not the case with Legends.

The KC Biz Journal also talked about Cordish having experience in working with folks like Hard Rock and Virgin and Niketown, while RED had experience with folks like Bed, Bath, and Beyond. I think that if I were a high profile retailer, I'd be more likely to work with a developer with a good national reputation that I had experience with, rather than a regional developer that I had never worked with and had no experience with High profile retailers.

The legends is a suburban retail experience, while downtown live will be a more hip, urban experience. I don't think there will be much competition at all.

[KCPowercat]

With Cordish on board it shouldn't be much of a competition.....it's not in these retailers M.O. (Niketown, ESPNzone, HRC, HoB, Virgin) to do suburban developments....they are usually right in the middle of an urban core entertainment district...which KC Live! is to a tee. Maybe they were looking at the legends because there was no suitable destination (plaza wouldn't let them in) so they just wanted to enter the market....now that KC Live is here, I think it would be a done deal.....not saying Legends wouldn't get any destination retailer but I'm not too afraid of them stealing something.

[KCDevin]

also cabelas will be obsolete to missourians when independence get the bass pro shop

[QueSi2Opie]

My wish list:
Giant mulit-level media store
My first choice would be a flagship Streetside with an unbelievable design (Jazz department in a mini 18th and Vine area, vinyl in a dingy basement, mini stage in the middle for concerts and record signings). This " dream store" would be entertaining just walking hrough the door. Because this would cost 10s of millions of dollars, the most realistic options for a giant media store would be Virgin, HMV, or a flagship FYE.

Niketown
This would be very hard to land as they seem extremely exclusive. I'm surprised they even came to Denver. It could happen, but I'm sure it would take a lot of lobbying to bring them into the fold.

ESPN Zone
This would be another big one that would be hard to land. But Nike and ESPN would probably follow one after another.

House of Blues
As mentioned before, House of Blues would look nice and fit well in the Empire. A real music venue in the district with the clout of HoB would surely bring locals there on a consistent basis.

AMC 18 Flagship
OK, I know it would be weird to have AMC attached because of past history, but they are a huge entertainment company based in KC. This theater should be AMC's prototype theater complex where they can test new concepts and programs before they go nation-wide. This would mean that this theater would always be a work in progress and an opportunity for theater-goers to experience the cutting-edge of theaters.

Slew of eateries and bars
Include a variety of different chains including Buca di Beppo, Hooters, Houlihan's, California Pizza Kitchen, Rockfish Seafood Grill, Chuck E. Cheese's(preferably on upper level-- not next to any bars), Ben and Jerry's, Fat Tuesday, etc. I know these places can be mindless, but they offer a recognizable place to eat (and drink). Also include George Brett Grill II and a signature Boulevard Brew Pub.

Jillian's
Like an amusement park for adults. Tons of different stuff to do under one roof.

ESPN X Games Skatepark
I know this would be hard to pull off because of its size, but let's remember that the South Loop is bunch of parking lots!!! I would like to see this project put on an upper level so it wouldn't eat up any street level retail. This would help round the district by providing an attraction for teens. With only 5 total skateparks and because 3 are in StL, Dallas and Denver...Kansas City seems like the next logical step.

I know this is a lot of stuff and some pretty big names, but I think this is what the entertainment portion of KC Live should be to make people see downtown is truly for real now.

Nice wish list!

Mine would be Hard Rock Cafe, House of Blues, Barley's Brewhaus (local), Jamba Juice, Jillian's, McBride's (local), Boulevard Brew Pub (local), The Flying Saucer, Joe's Crab Shack, B.B. King's blues club, Apple Bee's (local, but everywhere), KC Masterpiece (yuck, but Gate's & Bryant's aren't bar themed restaurants), Virgin, ESPN Zone, Niketown, Just Off Vine jazz bar (local), The Best of Kansas City Store (local), StarBucks, Hallmark Crown (local), AMC Theaters and Barne's & Noble. I'd also like to see someone like Len Dawson, Tony Meola or Tom Watson open a signature restaurant and Eddie Griffin open a comedy club.

Anyhow, I wouldn't want too much local stuff in Kansas City Live with the fear it might draw people away from those same establishments in Midtown and the Plaza.

Why don't we pile up all the things we'd like to see in our new entertainment district and send the wish list to Barnes and Cordish?

[trailerkid]

Que, it's not a bad idea considering Cordish can't be very far in the leasing process. I know for a fact that popular shopping centers use "store requests" by customers to help them decide who to bring in. And it is usually the names that keep popping up from the customers that they go after. I think if anyone wants to drop them a line telling them what Kansas City wants there, it couldn't hurt.

Here it is:
http://www.cordish.com/contactus.asp

or

601 East Pratt St., 6th Floor, Baltimore, MD 21202
Phone: 410.752.5444 Toll Free: 800.733.5444

[tat2kc]

There is an excellent article about the Cordish company in today's star. It basically talks about the history and track record of the company, and some preliminary design thoughts for KC live. It seems that they are going for a completely new destination in KC, with things never before done here. One aspect that really appeals to me is the circular plaza area that will have a special 'arena" liquor license that will allow one to take a drink into the public areas. This will be similar to Bourbon St. in New Orleans. The music clubs will be able to be open to the streets and sidewalks so that you can enjoy the music as you walk. For those of you who have not been to New Orleans, one of the biggest attractions on Bourbon St. is the fact that as you walk down the street, you'll hear Jazz, Blues, Zydeco, and Rock from the various clubs, all blending together. You'll see people standing around the doors and windows of the clubs, enjoying the music and the atmosphere of the area. If Cordish can bring in the mix of clubs they have in other places, with the top quality management they've done in the past, downtown KC will be a real, actual, destination! I am getting more and more excited the more I read about what the plans are.

[KCPowercat]

I agree with that tat....although my draw to Bourbon street is a bit more of the flesh

I haven't read that article yet but very good to hear the city won't be prudish on the liquor and allow it to go outside....I doubt they'd let you carry from club to club but just to have somebody serving outside would be nice.....

I'm getting very excited as well.....although it sounds like the Legends will give them a run for some tenants I don't think it should be a big deal....any tenant KC Live wants probably wouldn't be a good fit in the suburban development and vice versa.

[KCPowercat]

BTW, domain names for the new development.

kansascitylive.com - taken by an internet squatter
kclive.com - taken by a graphics company
kc-live.com - available
kansascity-live.com - available.

[tat2kc]

They are calling part of the development a "outdoor plaza with a bar that has an arena-style liquor license and a stage for live entertainment. The special license allows people to purchase drinks and wander around its confines."

They also state that the architecture of the district adds value to entire experience. A New York design firm is doing the work with unique store fronts and 25 foot sidewalks for outdoor cafes. The focus will be an urban hip electic style. They like to work with stone brick and glass to create an "urban loft aesthetic". Cool cool cool!

[KCK]

Downtown live can draw on the 90,000 workers between brush creek and the river. They can draw from tourists at Crown Center and the Plaza. They can draw on the conventioneers. They are so centrally located that they can draw from most anywhere in the metro. You can be downtown from anywhere in the metro in 20 to 30 minutes, which is not the case with Legends.

The legends is a suburban retail experience, while downtown live will be a more hip, urban experience. I don't think there will be much competition at all.

Well I can drive from my mom's house on 110th street(1/2 mile from Legends site) to downtown in 15 minutes, I can also drive from my Mom's to 119th and I 35 in Olathe in 25 minutes, or to Raytown in 30 minutes. So that bullshit you were spewing about it practically being in Colorado is false. Plus Legends is closer for people coming from Lawrence, Topeka, Manhattan, and the rest of the west. Besides Downtown has plenty of money and power and KCK has none, yet people are threatened that it will somehow overtake their area. Give us a break and enjoy downtown and Village West. We should be so lucky to have a multitude of cool places to hang out.

The Nebraska Furniture Mart, at bottom, in the dirt where a few cars are parked is the future site of The Legends.

[tat2kc]

I never said that the Legends was practically in colorado. I was simply talking aobut the the demographiccs of the two areas, and how I did not feel that they were going to be competing with each other. Downtown can draw from many thousands of workers who are within walking distance of the entertainment district. They also can draw from surrounding shoppping and hotel and convention districts that already exist. I would not want Cordish to poach retailers from the Legends, nor would I want the Legends to poach folks from Kansas City Live.

I work at an agency that has been in the downtown core of KCK for over 130 years. My agency made a deliberate decison to remain in the urban core of KCK despite legislative desire to move us to Johnson County. The success and turnaround of downtown KCK and the city as a whole is very important to all of us who are invested in that city, whether we are a native or not.

[QueSi2Opie]

Also throw BAR, McFadden's and Dick's Last Resort to my wish list.

[KCPowercat]

Bar {Your city} and Dick's last resort usually piss me off....I'd rather not have those....I bet Bar is in there somewhere, they seem to be a Cordish favorite. I like the rest of Que's & Trailer's list...couldn't go wrong with any of those.


My list

CD Store (probably virgin but a streetside would be cool)
coffee shop (Rosterie?)
ESPNzone
AMC
Jillians/Gameworks
Sing Sing or similiar dueling piano bar
HoB
Barleys or something similiar
Gates BBQ
Blvd. Brew Pub
Jazz club bar (Phoenix?)
Best of KC
3 dog bakery (started in KC)
Express (Men)/Banana Republic/Urban Outfitters/etc.
Emeril backed restaurant
Drugstore like an Ekerd

Not sure how much retail they will go after....sounds like more restaurants and bars but some retail would be nice...

Wonder how many retailers/bars the development will have? 425,000 sq. ft. is a pretty large area.

The arena district in Columbus has about 200,000 sq. ft. but they have about 12 restauants and no retail that I can see.

Zona Rosa will have 568,000 sq. ft. of retail/restauants outside of the anchor stores (Dick's sports, Barnes & Noble) and they have 27 retail outlets and 7 restaurants (although they are only 89% booked and whatever goes in KC Live! would probably have bigger footprint per outlet.)

[bahua]

Boulevard needs to open a restaurant in town, where they serve ridiculously good food, in addition to the bill of fare we are used to from them. Goose Island in Chicago comes to mind, as an example to follow. I always love going in there, to find beers that you can't find anywhere else. KCLive!(I really hope that isn't the final name...) looks like an ideal place. It would behoove them to do it.

Mmm... Pubchips!

[LyRiCaL GanGsTa]

My list

Virgin CD * Records
LatteLand
ESPNzone
AMC
Sony - PlayStation Store ( Like San Fran)
Galyans Sports
Arrowhead Sports ( like the Plaza has)
Software Etc/Babbages...
Border's Books
McCoys Brewery/Sports Pub
Gates or Bryants BBQ
Blvd. Brew Pub
Blue Note Jazz club (smokeless and REAL jazz -No freakin' crap like The Phoenix, I hate that place)
Express (Men)/Banana Republic/Urban Outfitters/etc.
Lydia's backed restaurant
Walmart Urban Center ( food, drugs, etc...)

[bahua]

Please, keep Walmart out of the plans. They've done enough damage. The last thing we want to do is encourage them to keep destroying our city.

[kcmajik]

amen to latteland- i love that place and i think it would be great downtown. it's a KC original too isn't it? well i think both you and trailerkid have good lists. about the wal-mart thing- minneapolis has a 4 floor target downtown and it's a smash hit i believe. i wouldn't totally rule out having wally world or target downtown as long as it is planned right for the setting. but i swear if it ends up being like the freakin midtown marketplace i would shit a brick.

[tat2kc]

I'd love to see Roastarie and Boulevard open signature places downtown. I'm not sure a software company like babbages would do well enough. I'd like to see a couple dance clubs in the area also.

What about the theatre that was supposed to go to the Legends, I can't remember the name, but it was the upscale theatre..

Would the skate park fit into this mix at all? Perhaps a skate park with spectator seating, and a high performance area where there could be competitions? Definately fits with the urban feel, but not sure what the liability factor would be..

It needs to contain attractions not only for tourists, but also for locals. What would those or you who are living in the 'burbs like to see downtown, or what do your friends and familes think would be an attraction that would draw you downtown on a semi-regular basis?

My other concern for this is the continued under-use of public transportation. As construction begins, we need to look closely at some type of transit system to link the loop with westport and the plaza, the Nelson, the Kemper, Crown Center and Union Station. My pipe dream would be a streetcar line from River Market down broadway to the plaza, over to Troost, back by the museums, then north through Hyde Park along Gillam Rd. past the development on 31st, through Crown Center and Union Station, up through downtown live and back to the River Market.

it could happen!

[KCK]

Why do you need a Bryant's downtown, wont that take business away from the one on 18th and Brooklyn?

[tat2kc]

Little Jakes should be given a shot, they've been downtown forever.