KCRag Forum

This is my son on the bike lane on Pennsylvania Avenue



I bring this up because it seems like very major (and minor) city has developed extensive and popular urban recreational assets over the past few years.


KCMO has some parts, but nothing complete or comphrehensive and certainly nothing that is well used.

Here are some more pics of DC:






That's just a few of DC.  I can probably post similar photos of nearly every city in the country.  Except KC.

All those levees, all that urban parks space, all those boulevards and very little usefull urban trails.

From Seattle to Orlando and Omaha to Little Rock.  Every city seems to have this asset now that KC still seems to lack.

Not sure what to say...we suck.  Glad you are enjoying DC.

KCPowercat wrote: Not sure what to say...we suck.  Glad you are enjoying DC.

Why do you take everything so personal?  KC's lack of urban recreation is something that I have always complained about.  I'm just surprised that little has been done to improve it.  I guess there is just no demand for it.  I really think it should be a higher priority there.  It really is something that almost every other metro over 500k has and KC really has very little.  It would add to the quality of life there IMO.

Can you give examples of cities more kc size? 

We don't have bike lanes everywhere true....we have the trail system, penn valley, loose park, but yeah not much.....maybe you are right the demand just isn't there for it. My urban recreation usually just requires running shoes so never seen an issue.

yeah, i am not really sure what else KC needs (it might need something-i literally just don't know what is missing).  there is an extensive trail system in swope park.  there are a lot of urban parks that people use for jogging, team sports, tennis, and just lounging.  
KC may not have a brand-spanking new made-for-yuppies system of trails, but for people willing to put in a modicum of effort the options are there.  i am also pretty sure there are hiking and maybe biking trails that go all over the city and connect to each other.

KC definitely needs proper bike lanes all over the city, i will say that.  

Urban recreation is something that really brings people into central cities and make them more vibrant.

Everwhere I go, I see it from Chicago, to Des Moines.  Just a ton of people taking advantage of urban trails and parks.

I guess you guys are taking this as an insult.  Penn Valley Park is one of the most underutilzied urban parks I have ever seen any place.  Is Berkley Riverfront Park still barely used?  Brush Creek still barely used?  Mill Creek is a nice little jogging path and a great local urban park, but not really what I'm talking about.

My point is that KC has the bones to have some of nation's best urban recreational infrastructure and they just don't take advantage of it.

Well, the Trolley track probably gets as much recreational use as any comparable urban trail in the country. The Indian creek bike trail is well-used and expanding. Swope Park has a premium single track bike trail that is getting connected to the Blue river trail, which should make it among the longest urban single tracks in the country. Swope also has great, well-used hiking trails and I have never been through in the spring/summer/fall and not seen folks fishing Lake of the Woods, Loose park is lousy with people recreating from May-October, and while I can speak to usage, the riverfront trail and cliff drive are certainly available. To say nothing of suburban offerings.  

Don't get me wrong, I think a "Bikes and Busses on Boulevards" program would breath new life into the city beautiful infrastucture we have, and I think most people here would agree with a similiar initiative, but even in StL, where they have a lot of bike lanes, usage is sparse at best.  

chingon wrote: Well, the Trolley track probably gets as much recreational use as any comparable urban trail in the country. The Indian creek bike trail is well-used and expanding. Swope Park has a premium single track bike trail that is getting connected to the Blue river trail, which should make it among the longest urban single tracks in the country. Swope also has great, well-used hiking trails and I have never been through in the spring/summer/fall and not seen folks fishing Lake of the Woods, Loose park is lousy with people recreating from May-October, and while I can speak to usage, the riverfront trail and cliff drive are certainly available. To say nothing of suburban offerings. 

Don't get me wrong, I think a "Bikes and Busses on Boulevards" program would breath new life into the city beautiful infrastucture we have, and I think most people here would agree with a similiar initiative, but even in StL, where they have a lot of bike lanes, usage is sparse at best. 

I would say Downtown StL is worse than KC.  I think StL probably is the one city that might be similar to KC when it comes to urban recreation.  But then again, they have one of the most popular and utilized urban parks in the nation (Forest Park) and the most popular leg of the KATY trail in St Charles (which connects to a vast system in West County via the bike bridge over the MO river).  So overall I think StL is better than KC as well.

My point is with two rivers coming together and all those levees, the PVP, the boulevards, the Brush Creek Trail, Trolley Track Trail etc, KC could have a top notch well used system.  But it's just not connected, not built.

This could really be something that the entire metro could get behind and fund.

It's not just juppie towns shit.  Baltimore, Cincy, Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Richmond etc etc have all built extensive urban recreational infrastructure over the past ten years.

GRID wrote: Urban recreation is something that really brings people into central cities and make them more vibrant.
 Penn Valley Park is one of the most underutilzied urban parks I have ever seen any place.

Yes, PV Park is underused. But I can name an equally urban and underused park in damn near every KC near peer.

chingon wrote: Yes, PV Park is underused. But I can name an equally urban and underused park in damn near every KC near peer.

Yea, but few with the size and potential of PVP.  That park could and should be a national gem.  Right there with Forest Park or Grant Park.  It's an amazing park if KC can ever figure out how to utilize it.

What we need is more tax dollars of people living in the city so we can improve these things.

as you say we have them in pockets but not a huge demand to make them better....putting a bike lane down a street is not going to get people to flock more downtown though.

I say look at what we do have which is mentioned by many people above. We enjoy it and use it....is it enough?  No....always room for improvement....but it is there and used.

Just something I have noticed that helps make cities more vibrant that KC seems to lack.  It seems to also make the city more attractive and inviting to tourists and suburbanites as well as city dwellers.

One thing I would like to see is bike rentals with a guide map.  I could see this working in City Market.

GRID wrote: Just something I have noticed that helps make cities more vibrant that KC seems to lack.  It seems to also make the city more attractive and inviting to tourists and suburbanites as well as city dwellers.

i would like to see people utilizing our existing amenities.  i wonder if any amount of "connection" will cause significant numbers of people to actually use PVP, the Riverfront Park, Swope Park, etc., not to mention levees and whatnot in more remote locations.  Loose Park, though not a grand urban park on the scale of Forest Park, is probably KC's most well-utilized park.  

Gillham Park is quite a success story as well.  there are always joggers, dogwalkers, loungers, and of late there are lots of organized sports.  on weeknights and the weekends the park is crammed with kickball leagues, aussie rules football, youth soccer practice, etc.  the playground and swings are very well-used as well.  i would say it is the most utilized park in "the city" that i am aware of.  much more crowded than roanoke, mill creek, PVP, etc.  i think it is key that it is totalyl surrounded by dense residential neighborhoods.

So any examples in cities more kc size?  Your move to dc has seemed to inflate your memory of how big kc is to support some of these things.

Do you not agree some examples given by posters is exactly what you were looking for and kc doesn't really lack in this area?  Id look to the trail plan being flushed out if what you are looking for is these areas connected more readily.

Philly


Tulsa


Chicago


Cincy


Wichita


Omaha


Little Rock


Des Moines (DM has built a huge system of urban trails and bridges in the past few years, I don't have photos yet)


Milwaukee


Rochester


Memphis


Peoria


Norfolk


OK, I give up.  I can go on and on.  I mean, you have places like Denver and Portland and Minneapolis that sort of givens.  But you really have nearly every city.

Austin, Boston, Denver, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Louisville, Peoria, Providence, Orlando, Tampa etc etc.

All have invested heavily in urban trails, parks, pedestrian bridges etc over the past decade.

It just seems like this is something where KC has really dropped the ball.

For your first post, in your first picture, GRID, notice how wide that street is.  Kansas City doesn't have streets that wide.  What could come close (but no cigar) would be Grand downtown and Main north of the Plaza.  While it might not be in KC Parkville has a trail much like the one in your second picture.  Your 3rd and 4th pictures could be Brush Creek.

Kansas City has the potential to have a great park system, the problem is that the parks compete with other items for resources in the city's general fund.  One thing that might work for the betterment of the parks is a separate Park Board elected by the public with its own taxing authority.  

Couldn't you say PVP is underutilized because of the shady reputation it once had.  People say that park use to be a magnet for shady activity like prostitution, drug dealing and such.  There was another thread recently about how Case Park is shady and one person was killed a botched robbery.

Maybe if you cleaned those things up, it would be more utilized.

We currenly play softball at PVP and it's a great place, there are a couple bums hanging out at night but we never really see any shady activity, that must have just moved to another park

brewcrew1000 wrote: Couldn't you say PVP is underutilized because of the shady reputation it once had.  People say that park use to be a magnet for shady activity like prostitution, drug dealing and such.  There was another thread recently about how Case Park is shady and one person was killed a botched robbery.

Maybe if you cleaned those things up, it would be more utilized.

We currenly play softball at PVP and it's a great place, there are a couple bums hanging out at night but we never really see any shady activity, that must have just moved to another park

regrettably, i must say PVP is still used for sex/drugs hookups.  we were at PVP a couple of sundays ago at about 3pm to be extras in a photo shoot for an advertisement.  it was that weird, snowy sunday.  NO ONE was out doing anything, anywhere (except us) b/c the weather was so bad.  we parked in the parking lot just north of 31st and Pennsylvania.  while we were there, we witnessed a number of shady things going on, including what appeared to be male prostitution.  PVP's drug/sex activity was just about the only activity occurring during this time period, it seems.

I'm just saying it would be so easy to create something fantastic in urban Kansas City that would rival anything in any other city.

Most towns make you want to jump out of your car and into the parks.  "wow, we should have brought the bikes to take in this city"

I never got that feeling from KC.  The parks in KC are empty, isolated and not part of a greater system.  Plus the infrastructure is just not there.

All those boulevards and you can't safely walk or bike down them (ever tried to bike down Ward Parkway?

Jersey barriers on the Heart of America Bridge with terrible connections on the ends?  It could be so much better.

The river levees are off limits the signs say!

How do you get to PVP?  You can't even freaking cross Broadway.  The park is split in half!

Brush Creek might have 2-3 people on it on a beautiful Saturday afternoon and nobody goes east of Main.

I just think somebody should step up and do something. It would be a nice next big project for KC.

KC could create a destination urban recreational system that would bring more people downtown than the Sprint Center or P&L District.