2012 Election

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splash
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by splash »

shinatoo wrote: the constitution doesn't have a citizenship requirement for President, it has a domestic birth requirement.

I am NOT the type to cry racist. But this would not be an issue if Obama wasn't black. The fact that this is still an issue makes me embarrassed. 
So what you're saying is that an "anchor baby" is eligible to run for President, but a child born on foreign soil to American parents is not?  Call me dense, but care to explain further, because that's not how I've interpreted what little I've read on the subject.

I am generally not one to jump to conclusions about racism, either.  But based on the wholly scientific study of reading various facebook posts from people and talking with others, race does seem to be a pretty big motivator with people that I grew up with.  Few have explicitly said that, but the implication is definitely there. 

In my conversation with the person I was talking about in my earlier post, she had stated that she 'does not like him'.  When I asked why, she said that she hated socialist Obamacare, thought it was terrible that he has bankrupted the country, that she's pissed that we turned over the country to a foreign Muslim, and that his endgame is to deed the country to China and force everyone to start following the Koran. 

She seemed pretty horrified when I ended up confirming every "fear" she might have had about my belief systems and political views, but our conversation ended up getting cut short due to weather.
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by FangKC »

splash wrote: In my conversation with the person I was talking about in my earlier post, she had stated that she 'does not like him'.  When I asked why, she said that she hated socialist Obamacare, thought it was terrible that he has bankrupted the country, that she's pissed that we turned over the country to a foreign Muslim, and that his endgame is to deed the country to China and force everyone to start following the Koran.  

She seemed pretty horrified when I ended up confirming every "fear" she might have had about my belief systems and political views, but our conversation ended up getting cut short due to weather.
Wow, it's obvious that she spends a lot of time listening to talk radio. All are basically the talking points of Limbaugh and Beck--to the exclusion of all other points-of-view or the facts. :D

I know what you are talking about. There is a lot of fear and intolerance at the base of these belief systems.  The mistrust of anyone who holds different political views as the enemy. It reminds me of past times when anyone who associated with blacks as branded a "n-word" lover.
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by shinatoo »

I guess I wasn't quite right either. Here is the official text.

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

    Anyone born inside the United States *
    Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
    Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
    Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
    Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
    Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
  Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
    A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

The bold one is what gets me. Wouldn't this qualify Obama even if he was born in Kenya?
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

Not saying the election is over now, because much can happen in the next 18 months, but there should be many in the GOP thinking twice about running for president now.  Osama is long gone from the scene.  Finally.
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Re: 2012 Election

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aknowledgeableperson wrote: Not saying the election is over now, because much can happen in the next 18 months, but there should be many in the GOP thinking twice about running for president now.  Osama is long gone from the scene.  Finally.
OTOH, George HW Bush at this point in his presidency was riding high of a popular and successful war in the Persian Gulf. SNL ran a sketch on how now Dem would want to face him. Two years later, thousands were unemployed - as was President Bush.
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

That's why I said "much can happen".  But Bush 1's high ratings did scare off a few Dem candidates which opened the door for you know who.

On a different subject, Obama really put the challenge out to Trump at the dinner Sat. night.  Trump better get to serious words now instead of hashing out weird charges.
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by KCMax »

aknowledgeableperson wrote: That's why I said "much can happen".  But Bush 1's high ratings did scare off a few Dem candidates which opened the door for you know who.

On a different subject, Obama really put the challenge out to Trump at the dinner Sat. night.  Trump better get to serious words now instead of hashing out weird charges.
He said this weekend he is running, but has to wait til the Apprentice season is over to officially declare, because of the Fairness Doctrine.
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by FangKC »

shinatoo wrote: I guess I wasn't quite right either. Here is the official text.

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

    Anyone born inside the United States *
    Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
    Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
    Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
    Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
    Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
    Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
    A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

The bold one is what gets me. Wouldn't this qualify Obama even if he was born in Kenya?
Yes, this is what I've been saying all along.  Even if Obama was born in Kenya, which he wasn't, he is considered a natural born citizen because his mother was a native-born US citizen.  This would also apply to a US-born unmarried mother living abroad.
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by splash »

FangKC wrote: Wow, it's obvious that she spends a lot of time listening to talk radio. All are basically the talking points of Limbaugh and Beck--to the exclusion of all other points-of-view or the facts. :D

I know what you are talking about. There is a lot of fear and intolerance at the base of these belief systems.  The mistrust of anyone who holds different political views as the enemy. It reminds me of past times when anyone who associated with blacks as branded a "n-word" lover.
She's not a talk radio person, but believes that Fox News is the only unbiased news source in the world.  I'm fine with having a differing opinion with someone else, but I have trouble respecting the intelligence of people who refuse to at least investigate the facts or the beliefs they have.  I obviously disagree with her on every point, and I might be wrong, but I've also tried to do at least some research on the subjects.  This might be a bad example, but the flat out look of horror on her face when I mentioned that I watch Al Jazeera online was fairly amusing.  She didn't say anything, but I know she was horrified that I was using "the terrorist network" as any kind of a legitimate news source.  She was also completely confused as to why I was excited that, after the Japan earthquake, that Uverse unlocked a Japanese network to all their customers for free.  She didn't understand why I would bother watching the news there, when Fox had better coverage.

I don't understand why she believes what she believes, but I try very hard not to knock it or criticize.  She hasn't been balls out offensive to my face regarding my beliefs, which I appreciate, but it's clear that we disagree on everything.  Honestly, my main beef with what she believes to be true is that she seems to be simply parroting the bullshit that she gets from the republican party fringe and I find that pretty much impossible to respect.  I have plenty of friends who are conservative republicans and I have no issues with the ones who can back up their beliefs and who are willing to have a discussion about the issues. 

To be honest, I am entirely unsure how I managed to become a liberal democrat.  My mom wholehearted feeds into the conservative, republican, tea-party, anti-Obama thing.  During the last election, her email forwards to me got to be so obnoxious and offensive that I finally had to demand that she STFU (this was after asking her nicely about 2 dozen times).  Off the top of my head, I honestly don't know a single person in my hometown who is a democrat.  They are all highly conservative, staunchly republican, love the tea-party movement, and would be thrilled if someone blew out the back of Obama's head with a .22. 

The most amusing thing that I keep discovering is that, besides the abortion issue, their number one beef seems to be gun control.  They believe that democrats want to take all their guns away and I adore messing with their head when they discover that I am a democrat, but that I am not only for the second amendment, but that I own guns myself.
FangKC wrote: Yes, this is what I've been saying all along.  Even if Obama was born in Kenya, which he wasn't, he is considered a natural born citizen because his mother was a native-born US citizen.  This would also apply to a US-born unmarried mother living abroad.
You beat me to it, but this is what I also have been saying forever and don't understand what the issue is.  The fact that the critics are discounting the fact that, regardless of where he was born and the nationality of his father, his mother was a United States citizen doesn't sit well with me. 
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

At least one nice thing about Trump in the race (unofficial) is that he appears to have taken the steam out of Palin.  Another factor hurting Palin is Michele Bachmann.  Palin may have stretched her 15 minutes of fame to 30 minutes, hopefully the clock has run out on her.
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Re: 2012 Election

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aknowledgeableperson wrote: At least one nice thing about Trump in the race (unofficial) is that he appears to have taken the steam out of Palin.  Another factor hurting Palin is Michele Bachmann.  Palin may have stretched her 15 minutes of fame to 30 minutes, hopefully the clock has run out on her.
As bad as Palin is, if we end up just trading her in for Bachmann, it's a wash at best.  They're both just awful, and for pretty much the same reasons.  But I guess if Trump and Bachmann drive Palin out of the spotlight, at least we only have to put up with Bachmann, not both Bachmann and Palin.
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by splash »

I know I've outed myself as the lunatic liberal democrat, but holy hell, let's just not say that Palin OR Bachmann will be running mates.  Please?  If we're going to have a woman running for the VP spot, can we at least have one who isn't a brain-dead moron?  I have faith that there is at least ONE suitable conservative republican woman candidate in the United States that isn't a complete fucktard.
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Re: 2012 Election

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I would enjoy a Palin-Bachmann Republican ticket. It would be a parade of fools.

Obama would be re-elected, and the House would probably go back to the Democrats.
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by splash »

FangKC wrote: I would enjoy a Palin-Bachmann Republican ticket. It would be a parade of fools.

Obama would be re-elected, and the House would probably go back to the Democrats.
A female/female ticket would never happen. No one would dare a woman/woman ticket, no matter the party.  How do you feel about a Trump/one-of-them ticket?  Because that would be the best chance either woman would have. 
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Re: 2012 Election

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FangKC wrote: I would enjoy a Palin-Bachmann Republican ticket. It would be a parade of fools.

Obama would be re-elected, and the House would probably go back to the Democrats.
Palin is already irrelevant.  Obama will be tough to beat, sitting presidents always are so the republicans will probably put more effort into winning back the senate.  Most rising stars in the party with a legitimate chance to win may wish to wait.  But they would never let Palin run, the fallout would be too heavy and they know it.  And, is she even actively campaigning?  From what I've heard, she's been a no show. 
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by AllThingsKC »

First Republican debate was tonight.  They all looked weak. The GOP seems to be lacking the kind of candidate with that zeal that Obama had/has.  While I am not convinced that Obama is a shoe-in for re-election, at this point in time he certainly looks unbeatable with those seemingly weak Republican candidates.  Of course, it's still very early. 
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Re: 2012 Election

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Re: 2012 Election

Post by mean »

...

Wow.
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by AllThingsKC »

Wow.  That is photoshopped, for sure!  Tim Pawlenty has 3 children, not 2!!  
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Re: 2012 Election

Post by mudjack »

AllThingsKC wrote: Wow.  That is photoshopped, for sure!  Tim Pawlenty has 3 children, not 2!!  
His wife has 3 children...
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