Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Transportation topics in KC
SilentSpades24
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by SilentSpades24 »

earthling wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:00 pm I rode 47 and MMAX last week and while fewer runs per hour was OK. Google Maps not sync'd at all though, way off. Can't complain when all lines free to ride. Airlines struggling too now claiming weather but we all know it's operational/staff issues. Time for overhead robo flight attendants with remote monitoring and one manned security? And perhaps it's just a matter of time planes/busses are flown/driven remotely like a drone. Might take another generation but won't be surprising if sooner out of necessity.
Yeah, not complaining, more curious ya know? Ultimately I'm fortunate enough to have a car. Went for a jog / walk and noticed every major stop had tons of people and I hadn't see a bus on 39th for the duration of the jog.

ATA is doing what it can and doing the very best that they can do. I'm happy they're trying to get things running as well as possible. Was more curious as to if certain routes take priority when it comes to situations like this.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by DaveKCMO »

Absolutely. Don't want to create a crowding problem during the pandemic, even though the entire world has shown that transit is safe due to new and existing protocols.

When trips are missed due to staffing shortages (a vehicle is scheduled to go out, but there isn't someone to drive it that day/time), great care is taken to ensure access is retained on low frequency routes so the first to see the hit are frequent routes. Taking one bus away from 31 still leaves plenty of service, rather than taking a bus away from 9 leaves nothing due to the lower frequency.

Drivers choose routes by seniority every quarter so if a driver is unexpectedly unavailable during that quarter (illness, quarantine, on-the-job injury) someone steps in to fill the work: That's the "extra board" and they're kinda like temps or substitute teachers. Very similar to the airlines, Greyhound, and Amtrak. So if you get a bus driver who might seem unfamiliar with the route, that's probably why (their "route book" does contain turn-by-turn instructions but that can be hard to reference while driving a 40-foot vehicle).

Of course, the goal is to not miss any trips and to let the public know if it does occur. Right now, the best way to stay informed is through this text/email/voicemail service that covers all RideKC services (including streetcar, no smartphone required): https://ridekc.org/rider-guide/ridekc-notify
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

DaveKCMO wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:12 pm Absolutely. Don't want to create a crowding problem during the pandemic, even though the entire world has shown that transit is safe due to new and existing protocols.

When trips are missed due to staffing shortages (a vehicle is scheduled to go out, but there isn't someone to drive it that day/time), great care is taken to ensure access is retained on low frequency routes so the first to see the hit are frequent routes. Taking one bus away from 31 still leaves plenty of service, rather than taking a bus away from 9 leaves nothing due to the lower frequency.

Drivers choose routes by seniority every quarter so if a driver is unexpectedly unavailable during that quarter (illness, quarantine, on-the-job injury) someone steps in to fill the work: That's the "extra board" and they're kinda like temps or substitute teachers. Very similar to the airlines, Greyhound, and Amtrak. So if you get a bus driver who might seem unfamiliar with the route, that's probably why (their "route book" does contain turn-by-turn instructions but that can be hard to reference while driving a 40-foot vehicle).

Of course, the goal is to not miss any trips and to let the public know if it does occur. Right now, the best way to stay informed is through this text/email/voicemail service that covers all RideKC services (including streetcar, no smartphone required): https://ridekc.org/rider-guide/ridekc-notify
Has the staffing issue resolved itself for the most part Dave, or are they still operating with lower frequency?
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

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Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:41 am Has the staffing issue resolved itself for the most part Dave, or are they still operating with lower frequency?
Still running reduced service. Staffing is the top priority to improve reliability and restore more service. It's affecting every city and even providers like Amtrak and Greyhound.
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

DaveKCMO wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:31 am
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:41 am Has the staffing issue resolved itself for the most part Dave, or are they still operating with lower frequency?
Still running reduced service. Staffing is the top priority to improve reliability and restore more service. It's affecting every city and even providers like Amtrak and Greyhound.
Austin’s transit service is suffering similar issues. Their PD from what it seems is also dealing with greater staffing issues. How long are the training cycles for new employees once their onboarded?
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by KCPowercat »

On the topic of going electric, didn't ATA invest a lot into the natural gas infrastructure in buses and at the bus barn? Will that just age out naturally and not be reinvested in?
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

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KCPowercat wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:04 am On the topic of going electric, didn't ATA invest a lot into the natural gas infrastructure in buses and at the bus barn? Will that just age out naturally and not be reinvested in?
It will take a LONG time to age out of CNG and I don't think it will completely go away until battery electric range matches diesel (right now it's shorter than CNG, which itself is shorter than diesel). Sure you can add in-route charging, but that just adds cost and complexity to operations.
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by KCPowercat »

Thanks. That makes sense.
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alejandro46
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by alejandro46 »

DaveKCMO wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:32 am
KCPowercat wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:04 am On the topic of going electric, didn't ATA invest a lot into the natural gas infrastructure in buses and at the bus barn? Will that just age out naturally and not be reinvested in?
It will take a LONG time to age out of CNG and I don't think it will completely go away until battery electric range matches diesel (right now it's shorter than CNG, which itself is shorter than diesel). Sure you can add in-route charging, but that just adds cost and complexity to operations.

To expand this a little, there are some electric busses that have a longer range (ex. 200-300 + miles) from Proterra.
https://www.proterra.com/vehicles/zx5-e ... bus/range/

However, they are (a) very expensive (EV busses are about 50% more than standard diesel unit), and (b) all EVs are hit by a pretty substantial range penality in the winter, up to 50% range loss in the extreme colds.

The Gillig-Cummins busses KCATA bought operate more around 150 miles real world range and use an existing internal combustion engine platform. The difference between Proterra and Gillig, BYD, and others isn't just the powertrain, but Proterra uses a carbon-fiber-reinforced composite materials in the bodyshell which is much lighter and the whole platform is built bottom up to be Electric.
https://www.gillig.com/post/a-closer-lo ... artnership

The good news is that most bus routes are pretty short and are along fixed routes, so cities can match the correct type of bus for the distance of the route.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by DaveKCMO »

Yes, KCATA actually has pretty short runs and blocks (representing the work for an operator and vehicle, respectively) throughout the system driven by years of running CNG so the transition won't be super difficult from a staffing perspective.

But, yeah, a 50% premium on just the vehicle and the fleet is 100% Gillig now (except for Flex and Freedom vehicles) and I'm sure you've heard that it's also difficult to find mechanics, so....
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by gfenn11 »

I've been riding the 229 a few times in the last month and I thought I remember seeing something that to make up for the reduced schedules, the buses would be the larger length- is that still the plan? Every time I've been on it/seen it lately it's been a shorter bus and from experience, completely packed.
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

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Trying to run as many large buses as possible while managing parts and labor shortages.

Long term vision is to get away from the shorter vehicles because of zero fare.
SilentSpades24
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by SilentSpades24 »

Out of curiosity, how many more operators would be needed to make the RideKC Next changes work? And has the ATA thought about implementing the route changes with lower frequencies? Or is it just not possible with the current shortage.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by DaveKCMO »

SilentSpades24 wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:12 pm Out of curiosity, how many more operators would be needed to make the RideKC Next changes work? And has the ATA thought about implementing the route changes with lower frequencies? Or is it just not possible with the current shortage.
60, and yes. Stay tuned.
SilentSpades24
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by SilentSpades24 »

Rode a couple buses Downtown and back today, and holy moly, what is with the on-board announcements spamming the same two messages almost constantly?

Every 10 seconds "calling all K-12 artists" or "attention RideKC riders".

If you're going to spam me, at least give me more than two options lol.
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

KC took #6 in City Nerds most recent video on top ten cities with worst transit. While he did shit on us for that he did actually give KC some praise for existing urban fabric of streetcar suburbs, quality of Max lines, and streetcar. However he did address the surface parking issue, and brought up the other videos where he shreds us for our highway situation. Overall he gives the info we all have been saying in this forum for a couple decades, so nothing new. Link below:

https://youtu.be/pNH05BczfZw
daGOAT
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

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Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:48 pm KC took #6 in City Nerds most recent video on top ten cities with worst transit. While he did shit on us for that he did actually give KC some praise for existing urban fabric of streetcar suburbs, quality of Max lines, and streetcar. However he did address the surface parking issue, and brought up the other videos where he shreds us for our highway situation. Overall he gives the info we all have been saying in this forum for a couple decades, so nothing new. Link below:

https://youtu.be/pNH05BczfZw
I love how the top comment is a guy from KC lol in all seriousness we are improving slowly but surely.
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:48 pm KC took #6 in City Nerds most recent video on top ten cities with worst transit. While he did shit on us for that he did actually give KC some praise for existing urban fabric of streetcar suburbs, quality of Max lines, and streetcar. However he did address the surface parking issue, and brought up the other videos where he shreds us for our highway situation. Overall he gives the info we all have been saying in this forum for a couple decades, so nothing new. Link below:

https://youtu.be/pNH05BczfZw
I think once Main St is done and we've established our next big line, people will stop saying that. It just seems small still because it's still just that one little line downtown.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

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FangKC
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by FangKC »

Not everyone in Kansas City drives a car. This man has been riding the bus for 45 years

https://www.kcur.org/arts-life/2022-04- ... r-45-years
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