STL Obtains Federal Funds for Trolley System

[kman]

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stor ... ily32.html

[DaveKCMO]

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stor ... ily32.html

surprising, but good news. fort worth and cincinnati were also streetcar winners in this round. expect many more livability awards that use unspent transportation funds. here's the full report:

http://www.fta.dot.gov/news/news_events_11820.html

[warwickland]

Kinda sad that this money isn't being spent where it's really needed, say up and down Grand, but anyway, I guess I see the how it could really be appealing from a tourism point of view to be able to go between Forest Park and Delmar on a clang clang trolley. That would be pretty unique in the midwest. Further, there is some extremely desirable housing stock in need of urgent TLC, some of the best in the entire midwest in fact, north of Delmar that will be well within walking distance of this.

[dangerboy]

Kinda sad that this money isn't being spent where it's really needed, say up and down Grand,

The City is planning for BRT on Grand, but that plan wasn't ready for this grant deadline. 

[chingon]

I hate to piss on the self-pity party going on here, but KC's 250K will be money better spent than the STL 25 mil.

I've been in STL twice in the last couple mounths and I have to admit to feeling rather less impressed than I used to by the city as a whole, or at least to feeling increasingly ambivalent about it, but STL seems unable to recognize the fact that its pedestrian infastructure is a fucking shambles and its transit system - off the light rail line, that is - is the worst I've ever used, with the exception of Detroit's, in a major city.

They are in desperate need of the kind of bus-stop upgrades the KC grant is for (as is KC, it should be said) as well as a host of other basic maintenance upgrades to their bus transit system and its connectivity and usability before they start frittering away money on a bar trolley for what is already their most "successfully" urban neighborhood. This is like a trolly between Westport and the Plaza.

The real winner is Cincy. If you want to get jealous, be jealous of Cincy for once.

[KCMax]

FTA Administrator: Streetcars will be judged by their impact on economic development

Earlier Thursday during the teleconference with reporters, I asked LaHood why the U.S. had suddenly embraced the Fort Worth streetcar system -- when just a few months ago it had rejected a joint proposal by Dallas and Fort Worth to each build streetcars. It gave the money to Dallas only.

LaHood said he did so because of the strong support for the project shown by Mayor Mike Moncrief and because the city had worked hard to advance the project and its planning beyond where it had been when it submitted the first application. Fort Worth wouldn't have gotten the money, he said, had it not been for the city and Moncrief's leadership on the project.

Something to think about next time you're in the voting booth.

[kcjak]

I hate to piss on the self-pity party going on here, but KC's 250K will be money better spent than the STL 25 mil.

I've been in STL twice in the last couple mounths and I have to admit to feeling rather less impressed than I used to by the city as a whole, or at least to feeling increasingly ambivalent about it, but STL seems unable to recognize the fact that its pedestrian infastructure is a fucking shambles and its transit system - off the light rail line, that is - is the worst I've ever used, with the exception of Detroit's, in a major city.

They are in desperate need of the kind of bus-stop upgrades the KC grant is for (as is KC, it should be said) as well as a host of other basic maintenance upgrades to their bus transit system and its connectivity and usability before they start frittering away money on a bar trolley for what is already their most "successfully" urban neighborhood. This is like a trolly between Westport and the Plaza.

The real winner is Cincy. If you want to get jealous, be jealous of Cincy for once.

Is this what has been going on down Main the past couple of weeks?  I don't understand the need to tear up EVERY major intersection from Crown Center to Westport all at the same time to install paved crosswalks and handicapped-accessible curbs, especially when KC typically does the construction only to turn around a few months later to tear it up for new bus stops.

[warwickland]

I've been in STL twice in the last couple mounths and I have to admit to feeling rather less impressed than I used to by the city as a whole, or at least to feeling increasingly ambivalent about it, but STL seems unable to recognize the fact that its pedestrian infastructure is a fucking shambles and its transit system - off the light rail line, that is - is the worst I've ever used, with the exception of Detroit's, in a major city.

Bus service needs help to put it mildly. It all depends on what bus line you ride as well. There are improvements coming down the pipe on various fronts, and remember, service restoration is still being implemented after passage of Proposition A.

Are you referring to anything specific about pedestrian infrastructure?

[chrizow]

Are you referring to anything specific about pedestrian infrastructure?

the sidewalks are on fire.

[warwickland]

the sidewalks are on fire.

I was curious, cause I think St. Louis sidewalks are actually pretty good, nice and wide, flat and clean. I've walked across this city many times and find the pedestrian infrastructure usually to range from average to well above average for the midwest, with some unfortunately high profile stinker areas thrown in too. I guess it would be easier if St. Louis was like Indy, and was able to throw everything at downtown, and have crappy broken 3 foot wide sidewalks everywhere else (or no sidewalks at all) that most people never see. Problem is that the city has to maintain the infrastructure built for 900,000 people on a budget of 350,000, and I think St. Louis actually does a really good job serving residents living in neighborhoods.

I can specifically talk about South Grand (which is in bad shape infrastructure wise), which is getting completely rebuilt with wider sidewalks and a new viaduct through midtown with much wider sidewalks and a new metro station in preperation for a BRT line.

[chrizow]

try walking on the sidewalks in south hyde park without severing your achilles tendon.  every other sidewalk segment is jacked up like 8 inches from a tree root or whatever.  people just walk in the street. 

A CITY THAT WORKS

[warwickland]

Whatever happened to the Colfax Ave streetcar proposal in Denver (or am I making this up)?

[chingon]

Well, I'll defer to your knowledge. I'm sure you've walked more of STL than I, and I can't recall specific intersections, because I don't know STL streets all that well, but I was along Delmar in what I think is midtown, between MLK and Delmar in the STL neighborhood adjacent to UCity, along Gravois b/n Grand and Soulard, along a good stretch of Chippewa and on the Westside of Dowtown quite a bit recently.

Sidewalks looked like shit to me. Broken, poorly patch-quilted, weedy in a lot of spots, with fallow street tree holes, very few curb ramps, etc. The bus stops I used were sometimes in very narrow patches of sidewalk, often had a patch of muddy, trodden up treelawn b/n the sidewalk and the curb where the bus stopped, some of them had pretty good puddles of standing water (immediately after it rained) and few had schedules on the signs.

I did notice the work on S. Grand, and the wide sidewalks and cafe seating and thought it looked great. Didn't know they were getting a BRT route, but that seems like a really good fit for the area. Shit like the downtown circulator bus and the trolley in the Loop just seem like useless wastes of funds given the fact that they are already perfectly well served by a good transit line and as you said, the city has no shortage of infrastructure needs given its built environment to actual population ratio.

[warwickland]

Well, I'll defer to your knowledge. I'm sure you've walked more of STL than I, and I can't recall specific intersections, because I don't know STL streets all that well, but I was along Delmar in what I think is midtown, between MLK and Delmar in the STL neighborhood adjacent to UCity, along Gravois b/n Grand and Soulard, along a good stretch of Chippewa and on the Westside of Dowtown quite a bit recently.

Sidewalks looked like shit to me. Broken, poorly patch-quilted, weedy in a lot of spots, with fallow street tree holes, very few curb ramps, etc. The bus stops I used were sometimes in very narrow patches of sidewalk, often had a patch of muddy, trodden up treelawn b/n the sidewalk and the curb where the bus stopped, some of them had pretty good puddles of standing water (immediately after it rained) and few had schedules on the signs.

I definitely understand your point now. Gravois north of Bevo is rough, and gets ugly near Soulard. Chippewa is in somewhat better shape, but is rough east of Kingshighway. Downtown west is rough as well. Also sounds like you were in north city, not midtown.

It's easy to find the rough spots on the massive "great streets" and they are massive, but there's also kind of a large semi hidden world of neighborhoods and minor business districts as well which I weigh pretty heavy in this discussion. I tend to take secondary and "backwoods" routes when navigating St. Louis, so sometimes I forget about the traffic sewers.

I did notice the work on S. Grand, and the wide sidewalks and cafe seating and thought it looked great. Didn't know they were getting a BRT route, but that seems like a really good fit for the area. Shit like the downtown circulator bus and the trolley in the Loop just seem like useless wastes of funds given the fact that they are already perfectly well served by a good transit line and as you said, the city has no shortage of infrastructure needs given its built environment to actual population ratio.

They actually haven't started the work on South Grand, the sidewalks are going to get a lot wider than that. Right now, there are brick pavers strewn everywhere from the last streetscaping...i really hate brick pavers or anything like that. Lay some clean, wide concrete!

[rxlexi]

  Should have done a Grand Ave Streetcar, or even Jefferson or Gravios.  Still cool though, and I think it will be popular.  Go St. Louie!  While we're on the topic of StL infrastructure - my largest issue with StL, physically, is not that sidewalks, per se, are in bad shape or that bus service is sporadic or whatever (complaints that can be thrown at many cities).  It is the very chaotic, mashed together nature of the place, and, to me, not just the city, but a good chunk of the region.  Many, many older neighborhoods, towns etc that were slowly consumed by the growth of the metroplex, maintaining the feel of their old boundaries and thus not feeling entirely one with the greater area.  Think Webster Groves or DT Kirkwood versus Brookside.  A lot of it feels like private, somewhat closed off (and admittedly beautiful) neighborhoods that are then split apart by large chunks of light industry, massive freeways, overly wide arterial roads, decayed/vacant areas etc.  Getting across the city, if not on a highway, can be daunting if you're not familiar with it (which I am, very happily). 

  Of course KC has all of these types of land uses as well, but they are roughly concentrated in specific areas or in some cases don't exist at all (urban freeways, for example, only really run through the loop, and perhaps you could argue HWY 71, but again most the rough crap is lumped east of Troost anyway; aesthetically a non-issue to the core city).  The RCP corridor is straightforward, easily accessible and understandable, and largely in decent shape, with very little industrial and no freeway intrusion.

  StL does not, and I don't think will ever feel all that "connected" from a ped/transit perspective.  In some ways, the urban core is just too big and broad and split by various dead zones to really work well from a ped/transit perspective, IMO.  Contrast that to KC, where one 7 mile LRT line down Main/Grand, river to UMKC/Brookside would essentially connect all of the most desirable parts of the city on a single, compact walkable grid (throw E/W BRT connections on there and you have a fully built-out system).  Makes not having rail transit all the more frustrating.

  That said StL is full of gorgeous, solid old homes and some of the finest urban parks in the midwest.  Each attractive "node" in StL is walkable, historic and fascinating, and often filled with the kind of neighborhood retail that for some reason we just don't really see in KC.  I love StL, absolutely, but I feel like it will be hard pressed to ever feel all that "connected", or of a piece.  This is the city that invented the "private place", for crying out loud.  As a side note, I hate biking down like Westminster Place and then having to hop over a gated entrance or dodge some dead-end concrete planters. Doesn't mean I don't love the place though!

[warwickland]

StL does not, and I don't think will ever feel all that "connected" from a ped/transit perspective.  In some ways, the urban core is just too big and broad and split by various dead zones to really work well from a ped/transit perspective, IMO.  Contrast that to KC, where one 7 mile LRT line down Main/Grand, river to UMKC/Brookside would essentially connect all of the most desirable parts of the city on a single, compact walkable grid (throw E/W BRT connections on there and you have a fully built-out system).  Makes not having rail transit all the more frustrating.

I'm glad you mentioned this, and its apparent you have an understanding of this region. My fears and hopes in this region are wrapped up in this conundrum relating to its connectivity. However, i do know that this region was once very connected, a difference being there was more dense residential in the great industrial valley but that's not coming back soon, but there are a lot of people so very desperate to see this region connected this way again, and physically it's possible (and it would be a rather grand statement for a midwestern city) so i'm hopeful.

[JivecitySTL]

While there are certainly some gaps that separate many great St. Louis neighborhoods from one another, the city is still EASILY one of the most urban and transit-friendly in the Midwest without a shadow of a doubt.  Anyone who says otherwise is either in denial or has some sort of complex.  Our rail system is the busiest in the Midwest outside of Chicago and links most educational, cultural and employment centers in the central corridor.  Say what you want about our bus system, but now that Prop A passed, all the service that was cut last year will be restored and even improved.  Much of it already has been restored.  It's going to be a very accessible system again.  Much of the criticism of our bus system is based on obsolete perceptions that the buses are slow and inefficient, when in reality, it's actually a very usable system.  The buses are well coordinated with trains and now have convenient transfer centers all over the metro area.  Some improved signage and route maps will go a long way to further improve the system.  But the buses are easy to use and go where you need them to, when you need them to.  People need to shed their old perceptions and give it a chance.  If you ride the f*cking bus, you would know that they are practical and convenient.  Of course it could be a lot better, too.

I live in Skinker-DeBaliviere, half a block from Delmar.  The new streetcar is going to be good for my property values.  I agree that other corridors would be better served by a streetcar line, but no one has done anything to lobby/plan for one with any meaningful resources.  Joe Edwards wanted one for the Loop and he got it because he worked his ass off to make it happen.  That's the kind of vision and leadership we need more of.  I'm excited for the Loop Trolley.  

[phuqueue]

Did the bus cutbacks only reduce the number of routes, or did they also affect remaining routes?  I ask because I moved to STL last August without a car and I've got to say I don't entirely agree that the bus system is all that great -- the 1/Gold Line runs right outside my door ever 15 minutes, which is fine, but lots of other buses seem to run only every 30 minutes or every hour, which can be pretty annoying.  I'm wondering if/hoping that bus routes that weren't cut will start to run more often.  I also wish the Metrolink ran more frequently.  To be honest, I basically never used transit when I lived in KC, so I'm admittedly pretty spoiled by places like New York, Chicago, and various European cities and it's not fair to ask or expect that kind of system out of a small midwestern city like KC or STL.  But I would appreciate if they could bump up the frequency on Metrolink trains a little bit.  It's not terrible if you're going east because you can grab either a red or blue, but if you're going west it's usually 20 minutes between trains.  Compared to New York where you just go to the subway and your train will be there within a few minutes (unless it's like 4 AM, might take longer), I learned pretty quickly to plan ahead and posted the schedule on my wall to check whenever I'm on my way out.  It's not such a big deal when I'm going somewhere because I know it takes me about 6-8 minutes to reach the station so I just hang around at home until then, but coming back it means if I miss my train I'm in for a bit of a wait.

I also understand the Metrolink used to run a bit later into the night -- is that service being restored now too?  I guess I'm too lazy to just look it up myself.

[JivecitySTL]

^To answer some of your questions:

Yes, MetroLink trains already run more frequently than they did before Prop A passed.  They have added an additional rush-hour train on both the Red and Blue lines.  Buses have also been added and will continue to be added through August, which will increase frequency on the busiest routes.  Many of those routes, including MetroLink Red Line trains, will also run later into the night.  I remember the days when the 70 Grand bus ran 24 hours.  Now it runs until about 2am.  Perhaps they will reinstate late-night service on some routes.

There are only a handful of cities in this country that can truly be considered "transit-friendly" and of course STL is not one of them (in fact, I don't even consider Chicago a very transit-friendly place for a city of its size).  New York, Boston, San Francisco and DC are the best transit oriented cities in the country.  Philly and Chicago have good systems that could be better. 

As for light-rail accessibility, though, St. Louis is doing a great job, as evidenced by its increasingly strong ridership numbers.  No transit system is perfect and ours is no exception, but it too often gets a bad rap that is not deserved. 

[kman]

I see where Joe Edwards envisions the trolley to run to the STL riverfront one day.  This guy is truly a visionary.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 675fe.html