Jackson County Regional Rail Plan

[neptune]

All you just described was white flight. You’ve (most of yall have) decided black and working class people and their neighborhoods are undesirable so we better take our >$1B corporation and all its high paying jobs and take them to the much more desirable (but realistically, effectively the exact same to anyone who’s not you) and white rural Kansas suburbs away from the trash and undesirables.

Wild. Good thing you can stay wherever you stay where it’s much nicer and more sophisticated, and probably whiter, than the rural South that is Kansas City.

There is nothing, NOTHING, inherently better on the Kansas side than TSC, they are the same and no nimby in an expensive JOCO zip code is going to want any stadium near them, and if you’ve been on MLS or urbanism Twitter at all then you’d know how embarrassed everyone is for SKC and KC for having the team play there. Anything else is just greenfield development and it’s crazy that an urbanism forum doesn’t see that, or does and doesn’t care.

Further more, if the Chiefs and/or Royals (whove referenced the Braves’ new stadium and developement which is at a site almost identical to TSC) are trying to get into the sports team-themed commercial real estate game then why would they go somewhere already developed with retail, where they can’t charge parking or control traffic, and game traffic would likely deter would-be shoppers from Nebraska Furniture Mart or the Legends?

I’ll stay on the opinion that the Royals need Downtown KC more than Downtown KC needs the Royals. KC needs the teams in the city, at all, more than simply being anywhere in the metro.

No taxpayer needs to bleed themselves dry for these teams; they need their taxes to improve schools, roads, infrastructure, [gun violence]; the actual issues facing Kansas City.

At least 3 pro-team stadiums have been built, or planned, in California over the past decade at NO taxpayer’s expense including the $5B SoFi, and CA has significantly higher construction costs than the Midwest. There’s no reason people whose MO or KS tax bracket puts them below the poverty level in California should have to pay for these bullshit stadiums. And if the homes for these teams for 6 decades is suddenly not good enough for them then good riddance.

Kansas City deserves better than this.

[KC_Ari]

All you just described was white flight. You’ve (most of yall have) decided black and working class people and their neighborhoods are undesirable so we better take our >$1B corporation and all its high paying jobs and take them to the much more desirable (but realistically, effectively the exact same to anyone who’s not you) and white rural Kansas suburbs away from the trash and undesirables.

Wild. Good thing you can stay wherever you stay where it’s much nicer and more sophisticated, and probably whiter, than the rural South that is Kansas City.

There is nothing, NOTHING, inherently better on the Kansas side than TSC, they are the same and no nimby in an expensive JOCO zip code is going to want any stadium near them, and if you’ve been on MLS or urbanism Twitter at all then you’d know how embarrassed everyone is for SKC and KC for having the team play there. Anything else is just greenfield development and it’s crazy that an urbanism forum doesn’t see that, or does and doesn’t care.

Further more, if the Chiefs and/or Royals (whove referenced the Braves’ new stadium and developement which is at a site almost identical to TSC) are trying to get into the sports team-themed commercial real estate game then why would they go somewhere already developed with retail, where they can’t charge parking or control traffic, and game traffic would likely deter would-be shoppers from Nebraska Furniture Mart or the Legends?

I’ll stay on the opinion that the Royals need Downtown KC more than Downtown KC needs the Royals. KC needs the teams in the city, at all, more than simply being anywhere in the metro.

No taxpayer needs to bleed themselves dry for these teams; they need their taxes to improve schools, roads, infrastructure, [gun violence]; the actual issues facing Kansas City.

At least 3 pro-team stadiums have been built, or planned, in California over the past decade at NO taxpayer’s expense including the $5B SoFi, and CA has significantly higher construction costs than the Midwest. There’s no reason people whose MO or KS tax bracket puts them below the poverty level in California should have to pay for these bullshit stadiums. And if the homes for these teams for 6 decades is suddenly not good enough for them then good riddance.

Kansas City deserves better than this.

100% agree. Do not care in the slightest if they leave or move across state line, and will likely vote no to a tax and tell people I know the same. Teams are cool and all and I'm a fan, but I could care less if they play here or in Wichita. I want my tax dollars going to actual improvements in peoples lives like regional rail and other infrastructure.

[GRID]

All you just described was white flight. You’ve (most of yall have) decided black and working class people and their neighborhoods are undesirable so we better take our >$1B corporation and all its high paying jobs and take them to the much more desirable (but realistically, effectively the exact same to anyone who’s not you) and white rural Kansas suburbs away from the trash and undesirables.

Wild. Good thing you can stay wherever you stay where it’s much nicer and more sophisticated, and probably whiter, than the rural South that is Kansas City.

There is nothing, NOTHING, inherently better on the Kansas side than TSC, they are the same and no nimby in an expensive JOCO zip code is going to want any stadium near them, and if you’ve been on MLS or urbanism Twitter at all then you’d know how embarrassed everyone is for SKC and KC for having the team play there. Anything else is just greenfield development and it’s crazy that an urbanism forum doesn’t see that, or does and doesn’t care.

Further more, if the Chiefs and/or Royals (whove referenced the Braves’ new stadium and developement which is at a site almost identical to TSC) are trying to get into the sports team-themed commercial real estate game then why would they go somewhere already developed with retail, where they can’t charge parking or control traffic, and game traffic would likely deter would-be shoppers from Nebraska Furniture Mart or the Legends?

I’ll stay on the opinion that the Royals need Downtown KC more than Downtown KC needs the Royals. KC needs the teams in the city, at all, more than simply being anywhere in the metro.

No taxpayer needs to bleed themselves dry for these teams; they need their taxes to improve schools, roads, infrastructure, [gun violence]; the actual issues facing Kansas City.

At least 3 pro-team stadiums have been built, or planned, in California over the past decade at NO taxpayer’s expense including the $5B SoFi, and CA has significantly higher construction costs than the Midwest. There’s no reason people whose MO or KS tax bracket puts them below the poverty level in California should have to pay for these bullshit stadiums. And if the homes for these teams for 6 decades is suddenly not good enough for them then good riddance.

Kansas City deserves better than this.

lol. You don't know me very well do you.

You think I favor anything about the KS side sprawl over KCMO?

White flight has little to do with the area around the TSC. It was never really fully developed to really even have white flight. I mean parts of nearby Raytown and Indepdence and East KCMO have had some white flight, but the area is actually still pretty white.

I'm talking about how poorly maintained the general infrastructure is. And this is KCMO/Jackson County in general. It's one of the reasons the MO side is so less developed with massive areas of nearly undevelopable land everywhere. Nothing is improved up to metropolitan city standards. It's why the entire eastern leg of 435 is barley developed.

And for me to even suggest that either team go to Kansas under any circumstances means I have hit an all time low with my confidence in the city/county/state doing anything to clean up the area. The area might actually be better off if all those parking lots were full of warehouses and the jobs that come with them. I mean if they are not going to do anything to make the area more desirable, then just let it develop as an industrial park.

And all of that would only be if the Royals moved downtown. If the Royals moved to Kansas, I would never care about the Royals again. They may as well change the scoreboard to a giant Jayhawk since most fans will probably be the KU crowd.

I get it. I really do about these teams asking for public money for stadiums. That's a choice people there will have to make because KC is not LA or something where stadiums can be built with private money. Even here in DC, the stadiums are sadly mostly public funded.

Personally, having pro sports is worth the small amount of tax money that goes into. Having the stadiums also brings in more concerts etc. It's all part of the quality of life of living in a major city. KC's biggest problem is the state probably won't help much and only a fraction of the already small metro contributes to stadium funding making making the tax a bigger deal there.

[langosta]

Amtrak is replacing their P42 locomotives and coach cars with the same ones that Missouri bought. The old units will be scrapped/sold. While old, the last time Amtrak upgraded their equipment many units were picked up by commuter railroads for dirt cheap. Could be an opportunity for KCATA to buy complete trainsets in the single millions of $$.

A few Amfleet and iirc Horizon cars have already been sold in the hunderds of thousands to refurbishers and leasors.

[DaveKCMO]

Amtrak is replacing their P42 locomotives and coach cars with the same ones that Missouri bought. The old units will be scrapped/sold. While old, the last time Amtrak upgraded their equipment many units were picked up by commuter railroads for dirt cheap. Could be an opportunity for KCATA to buy complete trainsets in the single millions of $$.

A few Amfleet and iirc Horizon cars have already been sold in the hunderds of thousands to refurbishers and leasors.

Capital costs aren't the issue. No money to operate new service.

[langosta]

Amtrak is replacing their P42 locomotives and coach cars with the same ones that Missouri bought. The old units will be scrapped/sold. While old, the last time Amtrak upgraded their equipment many units were picked up by commuter railroads for dirt cheap. Could be an opportunity for KCATA to buy complete trainsets in the single millions of $$.

A few Amfleet and iirc Horizon cars have already been sold in the hunderds of thousands to refurbishers and leasors.

Capital costs aren't the issue. No money to operate new service.

Capitals costs if they can be minimized will make asking for the operating costs via a tax much easier to do….

[langosta]

KCS plans to upgrade their Missouri infrastructure including instances of double tracking. Believe this includes KC area. I know the previous commuter plan wanted to use a few KCS lines so this could be good news.

[DaveKCMO]

KCS plans to upgrade their Missouri infrastructure including instances of double tracking. Believe this includes KC area. I know the previous commuter plan wanted to use a few KCS lines so this could be good news.

You mean CPKC? I don’t know how decisions are made at the new entity but I would not get my hopes up.

[langosta]

KCS plans to upgrade their Missouri infrastructure including instances of double tracking. Believe this includes KC area. I know the previous commuter plan wanted to use a few KCS lines so this could be good news.

You mean CPKC? I don’t know how decisions are made at the new entity but I would not get my hopes up.

You are right, CPKC. They are playing a duel track and have requested government funding. It’s to be seen if they get it. CP in their hometown has been supportive of transit.