AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:23 pm
Who cares about pitching it for south JoCo residents anyway
It would just be so much bigger statement if we got Oracle to fill that building and put its logo up on it
Are you kidding? South JoCo/Lee's Summit is where most the talent lives. Just look at Oracle's previous hiring habits and be real... Oracle is not moving to DTKC especially when there are existing incentives in the sprawling campus environment they much more prefer. It's quite literally going to be between Bannister or our jobs being remote from Austin, Texas. 1400Baltimore will find a tenant(s) and things will be perfectly fine, it's just time for the city to be more aggressive.
Then what are we even trying to do here?
We’re trying to change that here in KC and not let JoCo run the place. If you just keep capitulating to sprawl & the suburbs then nothing will change. We want the talent in downtown obviously. That’s never gonna happen if we don’t put our foot down and try to change it. Once you get someone like Oracle to go downtown then the rest will follow and eventually not every office will have to go to JoCo because they’ll adjust. You can’t just keep capitulating though- honestly if they’re just gonna be isolated sprawl company then I could care less if they come here or not.
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:23 pm
Who cares about pitching it for south JoCo residents anyway
It would just be so much bigger statement if we got Oracle to fill that building and put its logo up on it
Are you kidding? South JoCo/Lee's Summit is where most the talent lives. Just look at Oracle's previous hiring habits and be real... Oracle is not moving to DTKC especially when there are existing incentives in the sprawling campus environment they much more prefer. It's quite literally going to be between Bannister or our jobs being remote from Austin, Texas. 1400Baltimore will find a tenant(s) and things will be perfectly fine, it's just time for the city to be more aggressive.
Then what are we even trying to do here?
We’re trying to change that here in KC and not let JoCo run the place. If you just keep capitulating to sprawl & the suburbs then nothing will change. We want the talent in downtown obviously. That’s never gonna happen if we don’t put our foot down and try to change it. Once you get someone like Oracle to go downtown then the rest will follow and eventually not every office will have to go to JoCo because they’ll adjust. You can’t just keep capitulating though- honestly if they’re just gonna be isolated sprawl company then I could care less if they come here or not.
Suburban sprawl is not magically going to reverse and like I mentioned, it's KCMO city limits and will be another asset to one day connect with true LRT. Best case scenerio both get utilized but the city should be ready to aggressively pursue the Bannister Campus Master Plan, with more changes for private dev/public use. The Southside could use the boost.
daGOAT wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:08 pm
Suburban sprawl is not magically going to reverse and like I mentioned, it's KCMO city limits and will be another asset to one day connect with true LRT. Best case scenerio both get utilized but the city should be ready to aggressively pursue the Bannister Campus Master Plan, with more changes for private dev/public use. The Southside could use the boost.
Idk..I just can't fathom why anyone would to pass on a massive opportunity to start moving the talent downtown in the metro and simultaneously kill a suburban greenfield. It's such a win-win no brainer.
Oracle moving downtown to 1400KC will make more of a statement for downtown than some random tenant. Not really much else to say.
daGOAT wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:08 pm
Suburban sprawl is not magically going to reverse and like I mentioned, it's KCMO city limits and will be another asset to one day connect with true LRT. Best case scenerio both get utilized but the city should be ready to aggressively pursue the Bannister Campus Master Plan, with more changes for private dev/public use. The Southside could use the boost.
Idk..I just can't fathom why anyone would to pass on a massive opportunity to start moving the talent downtown in the metro and simultaneously kill a suburban greenfield. It's such a win-win no brainer.
Oracle moving downtown to 1400KC will make more of a statement for downtown than some random tenant. Not really much else to say.
The opportunity for Oracle would be take advantage of incentives, not move downtown because kcrag posters think the signage would be cool lol. Ijs one sounds like it's realistically something that benefits both parties, being Oracle and the City of Kansas City, one sounds like a pipedream.
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:23 pm
Who cares about pitching it for south JoCo residents anyway
It would just be so much bigger statement if we got Oracle to fill that building and put its logo up on it
Are you kidding? South JoCo/Lee's Summit is where most the talent lives. Just look at Oracle's previous hiring habits and be real... Oracle is not moving to DTKC especially when there are existing incentives in the sprawling campus environment they much more prefer. It's quite literally going to be between Bannister or our jobs being remote from Austin, Texas. 1400Baltimore will find a tenant(s) and things will be perfectly fine, it's just time for the city to be more aggressive.
it's the younger childless demo that's more willing to come back to the office, people with kids a more like to live in the suburbs
Last edited by ericwyner on Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Are you kidding? South JoCo/Lee's Summit is where most the talent lives. Just look at Oracle's previous hiring habits and be real... Oracle is not moving to DTKC especially when there are existing incentives in the sprawling campus environment they much more prefer. It's quite literally going to be between Bannister or our jobs being remote from Austin, Texas. 1400Baltimore will find a tenant(s) and things will be perfectly fine, it's just time for the city to be more aggressive.
Then what are we even trying to do here?
We’re trying to change that here in KC and not let JoCo run the place. If you just keep capitulating to sprawl & the suburbs then nothing will change. We want the talent in downtown obviously. That’s never gonna happen if we don’t put our foot down and try to change it. Once you get someone like Oracle to go downtown then the rest will follow and eventually not every office will have to go to JoCo because they’ll adjust. You can’t just keep capitulating though- honestly if they’re just gonna be isolated sprawl company then I could care less if they come here or not.
Suburban sprawl is not magically going to reverse and like I mentioned, it's KCMO city limits and will be another asset to one day connect with true LRT. Best case scenerio both get utilized but the city should be ready to aggressively pursue the Bannister Campus Master Plan, with more changes for private dev/public use. The Southside could use the boost.
So the suggestion was not to 'move' HQ downtown but to add a downtown presence given many Cerner employees live downtown and close to the airport as many roles are high travel oriented. There would still be plenty office in Bannister location but there's an opportunity to also expand data centers there with another Oracle Cloud region. Convince Oracle to expand KC as another general Oracle hub (downtown and Bannister sites give employees urban/suburban options) and you get the best of all scenarios.
There's a realistic opportunity to pursue all of this.
If the City doesn't proactively pursue aggressively, the default action appears to be that Oracle will make KC the Health HQ on paper but the actual action so far is mostly work from anywhere job postings, so potentially local workforce could reduce over several years through attrition. Pursue expanding Oracle's commitment to DCs and a general company Hub (not just Health, for 100K+ Oracle employees) and that would engage more local investment and broader employee base that can consider KC as a Hub option. DCs involve fixed local long term investment commitment (many $Bs of infrastructure upgrades over decades) that would help keep KC on their radar for decades in addition to a contribution to the growing KC data center industry.
Designating a divisional HQ on paper doesn't necessarily retain jobs/investment for a company that embraced remote working before pandemic. I suspect that if the City/ecodev groups pause with a wait/see approach will mean many K+ job losses over 5+ years.
Make something happen bigger out of this, with Texas style aggressiveness.
1400KC is tiny compared to the bannister campus. I mean Oracle could lease up that building and it would barely even be anything in their office budget. But it sure would be one hell of a shot in the arm of Downtown if they did lease it and threw their name on the building.
The Bannister campus is never going to be anything till they redesign the rest of the area into a true mixed use open to the public development. That was never going to happen with Cerner, maybe, just maybe it can happen with Oracle.
That development looks like a 1980's office park that came to the future and landed on a closed landfill or something. It's just hideous on so many levels. Why would anybody want to work there?
I hope Oracle takes some pride in the area and cleans it up, but that would take some serious leadership from KCMO, Jackson County and Missouri to put together a true plan to correct that urban planning disaster. You know the same people that need to come together and save keep the Chiefs at the TSC. haha, yeah those people.
A downtown presence (as an expansion, not a campus move) would be a good start, whatever building.
Not out of wishful thinking but out of practical sense that many Cerner employees live downtown up to airport already given many roles are high travel. W&R building is the priciest downtown but small potatoes compared to what Oracle rents in largest markets, not a big deal to them (with more parking than most urban buildings and designed for single tenant, so could actually be attractive to them). And Bannister site is better suited for data centers moving forward. Can have best of both and offer 2 options for local employees (ideally as an addtional Oracle Hub as well with urban/suburban options for their entire employee base that might consider KC).
May not happen with Oracle plans by default, the City may need to drive for it to happen as part of renegotiating the Bannister site plans. But KC is not experienced in aggressively driving things like this to happen like Texas can pull off.
^Lost opportunity to not even check. That's a pretty hard core debbie downer response.
Though I do see Oracle putting up a facade of making KC the Health HQ on paper while high chance cutting employment in half over rest of decade given the way over half of local job postings don't require a KC presence. The City needs to at least make an effort to make most out of this, lost opportunity to not even try.
Restructuring the incentives is where this opportunity can have a shot if cards played right.
Are you kidding? South JoCo/Lee's Summit is where most the talent lives. Just look at Oracle's previous hiring habits and be real... Oracle is not moving to DTKC especially when there are existing incentives in the sprawling campus environment they much more prefer. It's quite literally going to be between Bannister or our jobs being remote from Austin, Texas. 1400Baltimore will find a tenant(s) and things will be perfectly fine, it's just time for the city to be more aggressive.
Then what are we even trying to do here?
We’re trying to change that here in KC and not let JoCo run the place. If you just keep capitulating to sprawl & the suburbs then nothing will change. We want the talent in downtown obviously. That’s never gonna happen if we don’t put our foot down and try to change it. Once you get someone like Oracle to go downtown then the rest will follow and eventually not every office will have to go to JoCo because they’ll adjust. You can’t just keep capitulating though- honestly if they’re just gonna be isolated sprawl company then I could care less if they come here or not.
Suburban sprawl is not magically going to reverse and like I mentioned, it's KCMO city limits and will be another asset to one day connect with true LRT. Best case scenerio both get utilized but the city should be ready to aggressively pursue the Bannister Campus Master Plan, with more changes for private dev/public use. The Southside could use the boost.
Isn’t the South Side getting a massive Science & Tech live/work/play development in and around the old Bannister Federal Complex? Perhaps that is what you are referring to but maybe not. Thought it had Little Blue River name associated with it. If that hits & the Cerner/Oracle south campus gets usage in some fashion that would be a nice boost to South KC
WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:06 pm
It takes two to tango. Maybe there is background stuff going on, I have no idea.
KC area's largest corporate employer could be easily cut in half if City/local ecodev groups don't take proactive steps. If they wait and see what Oracle plans to do, may be too late. So hopefully there is some action with various incentive package options (data center option, downtown expansion option, Oracle Hub option, etc).
If the region continues to go big on alternative energy (solar/wind farms), cheaper energy costs could be one incentive that few people are talking about here. You can incentivize short-term with tax abatements, and TIF that expires at some point. However, predictable cheap energy, combined with cheaper office costs, housing, etc., are pretty attractive things to promote to a large company like Oracle -- especially for data centers.
FangKC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:22 am
If the region continues to go big on alternative energy (solar/wind farms), cheaper energy costs could be one incentive that few people are talking about here. You can incentivize short-term with tax abatements, and TIF that expires at some point. However, predictable cheap energy, combined with cheaper office costs, housing, etc., are pretty attractive things to promote to a large company like Oracle -- especially for data centers.
I wonder why they moved to Austin if Oracle is truly concerned about cost of living. Austin has to have among the highest cost of living in the US right now. My son rents a broken down house (considerably less than 1000 sq ft) on a small lot in Austin. The owner is trying to sell it for 1.25 million. Just crazy real estate inflation there (and property taxes are pretty high in TX - albeit, they don't pay state income tax). KC would be a great option for a lot of their employees that have to be wondering if they are ever going to afford a home.
