Need cleveland ideas

Want to talk about your favorite places besides Kansas City? Post any development news or questions about other cities here.
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chrizow
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Re: Need cleveland ideas

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Chiming in on the JoCo v. Northland discussion - I enjoy the topography of some parts of the northland, like in Parkville and the rural area around Weston. That said, if we wanted to move to the deep suburbs, I would never in a million years choose the northland over JoCo. JoCo is imperfect, of course, but in addition to some great public schools it has retail and restaurant options that are better than up north. I also personally feel like JoCo's positioning on the street-grid south of the river makes things feel somewhat more connected to the city. Crossing the river, then most likely driving another 10-30 minutes up north to get anywhere, makes the northland feels like an entirely different metro to me--like "rural MO, in exurban form" in mindset and appearance--it feels like Springfield or something. The newer parts of JoCo are not exactly inspiring but there is at least a modicum of diversity (i.e. families from India, Asia, middle east), some good food options and amenities, and it feels more like a "big city" suburban area than the northland. Not to mention JoCo is a bit more "liberal" than Clay or Platte Cos. At this point NE JoCo is probably more like BKS/Waldo/Midtown in terms of voting and political leanings.

Also, I do not think there is any different mindset between someone who chooses to live in SoJoCo vs. the far-flung northland, in terms of their acceptance or hostility to the urban core. I think you encounter the same, anti-city (often racist) mindset up north as often as you do out south--and, likewise, I think you will find folks who enjoy the urban core even if they do not live there. 159th and Switzer is far from downtown, sure, but it doesn't feel any more disconnected from downtown than the tonier areas of the northland, with Briarcliff being the lone exception--and, frankly, while Briarcliff is relatively close to downtown as the crow flies, it still feels pretty disconnected since you have to drive over a bridge and railyards for 10-15 min before exiting the highway and then up a steep hill into the residential enclave. Driving to Parkville or Liberty feels like going out of town. Also, the northland itself is enormous and you go through vast swaths of rural land--or ugly blight--between the different areas.

We are still in BKS and plan to stay, but occasionally we are "tempted" by a house in PV, Fairway, Westwood Hills, or Old Leawood. Other than Old Briarcliff, I am not aware of anywhere in the Northland with relatively older, well-maintained housing stock on par with NE JoCo. If i wanted a large, newer McMansion on a cul-de-sac (which I do not), I would choose south JoCo over the northland 100 times out of 100. To me, the only "plus" of the northland is you might be closer to the airport--although it's notable that many areas of the northland are 20+ minutes to the airport.
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Re: Need cleveland ideas

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^chriz alive
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chrizow
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Re: Need cleveland ideas

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earthling wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:23 am ^chriz alive
Actually this is just a bot/A.I., simulating chrizow.
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Re: Need cleveland ideas

Post by FlippantCitizen »

Interesting direction for the Cleveland thread but this is actually a good discussion. I grew up in JoCo, and came to really despise suburbia. Spent time living in NYC, Portland OR, and Prague. Come back and I'm living in Urban KC now. I have to echo everything chrizow and highlander said. I'll never live in JoCo again in my life but honestly I'd take it over the Northland. The street grid provides good connectivity and as noted the infill and density (at least north of 119th seems adequate for a suburbia). Probably my own fault but I don't know the ground up North at all. Anytime I have to go there for any reason I find it disjointed, hard to navigate, patchy, overall confusing. You have to take the highway everywhere and I generally hate that. Living in Midtown I easily and regularly access JoCo via surface roads. Downtown OP and the Mission Shopping district occasionally get my business. Other than North Kansas City which I am a big fan of I rarely ever go north of the river. I think it's clear that JoCo is the more attractive suburban option for a lot of reasons. What are the actual solutions available to make the Northland better or am I just ignorant of its existing merits?
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Re: Need cleveland ideas

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chrizow, I generally agree with most of what you said. Personally, the "culture" of the northalnd is enough to keep me away. Too many pickup trucks and trump types up there for my taste. But most people in suburban KC don't care about that. I would think the Northland will eventually have similar restaurants/retail options as JoCo, but maybe not since the overall income levels are just much lower.

I would never in a million years live in Kansas. Missouri is bad enough. So while JoCo does feel more like "big city" suburbia, it's still Kansas and it may feel like big city suburbia, but after living in suburban DC, it sure isn't big city culturally. Most people even in JoCo seem very small townish culturally.

If I ever move back to KC, it would be in the central city. The only places I would consider moving to outside of the central city is brookside and briarcliff or maybe NKC if it matures and develops into a proper urban suburb in the next 20 years.

Suburban KC in both MO and KS sucks even though the people there think otherwise.

All I say is that if you do work downtown and do like the middle America suburban lifestyle, then it would be silly to overlook the Northland.
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Re: Need cleveland ideas

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GRID wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 am
I would never in a million years live in Kansas. Missouri is bad enough. So while JoCo does feel more like "big city" suburbia, it's still Kansas[.]
This is an interesting point. On a state-wide level, Kansas and Missouri are pretty bottom-barrel, so that's kind of a "shit sandwich vs. douchebag" choice, to borrow from South Park. In this age of polarization (red/blue, but even moreso urban/rural), folks living in the older, inner part of the KC metro probably have more in common with people in other big cities than they do with people in "outstate" MO or KS....And that "outstate" mentality is something you find in abundance in the northland as well as East Jack, moreso than JoCo. For better or worse, "culturally" I think Westwood Hills, Fairway, Prairie Village, etc. seem more aligned with BKS or even Midtown than Olathe, let alone outstate KS.

I do agree that, if you work downtown and are seeking the cul-de-sac lifestyle, the northland is a fine option. Even so, I would probably rather grind my way downtown on I-35 or thru KCMO than make the trek from parkville, liberty or platte co.
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Re: Need cleveland ideas

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"culturally" I think Westwood Hills, Fairway, Prairie Village, etc. seem more aligned with BKS or even Midtown than Olathe
Totally agree, but it's still Kansas. And here lately , Missouri has become the Mississippi or Alabama of the Midwest.

I feel bad for KC. But somehow, someway, KCMO has still found a way to be a pretty cool place despite its location among two of the least respected states in the country.
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Re: Need cleveland ideas

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Adding a W Hotel to an existing office tower in downtown CLE
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