No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

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flyingember
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by flyingember »

I think there's bigger priorities but I can see the benefit to restoring Walnut.

at the very least it will help with the streetcar and traffic flow around it.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by DaveKCMO »

7th and 8th are the next targets.

one block of locust between 13th and 14th will be converted to facilitate movement of customers to a new holiday inn express that will occupy the interstate building at 13th and locust. currently, customers would have to drive four blocks out of their way to access the entrance from the east.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by FangKC »

I just wish they would get rid of all the one-way streets in the Old Northeast. I have never understood the need for them.
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chaglang
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by chaglang »

FangKC wrote:I just wish they would get rid of all the one-way streets in the Old Northeast. I have never understood the need for them.
All but one street in my neighborhood is 1 way. They were done to prevent people from cruising for drugs/hookers, but that hasn't been a problem here for quite a while. So I floated the idea of getting rid of them and it got no support. There seems to be a feeling that the 1 ways are part of the reason we don't have those problems here anymore.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by pash »

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Last edited by pash on Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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chaglang
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by chaglang »

pash wrote:If you can't figure out how to cruise for hookers on a one-way street, I can show you how.
:lol:
A lot of the traffic has moved out. The ladies with curiously large hands are at 43rd and Troost now. If you cruise by there after midnight, it's all enormously tall prostitutes and minivans with JoCo plates.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by DaveKCMO »

i could see one-way streets being converted to restore the grid around a streetcar line -- say, along main street or linwood in midtown -- but other than that there's little reason to convert them in single-family neighborhoods. it usually provides more space for on-street parking. the claim that it prevents through traffic and crime is dubious.
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chaglang
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by chaglang »

DaveKCMO wrote:i could see one-way streets being converted to restore the grid around a streetcar line -- say, along main street or linwood in midtown -- but other than that there's little reason to convert them in single-family neighborhoods. it usually provides more space for on-street parking. the claim that it prevents through traffic and crime is dubious.
Most midtown houses have driveways, so it really only provides excess parking. And allows cars to rocket up and down sidestreets. We're putting in speed bumps because, with no traffic or parked cars, it's essentially a 20' wide lane.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by DaveKCMO »

there are studies that prove the effectiveness of on-street parking and two-way streets as a traffic calming device. you could also try the angle of it being better for cyclists.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by Pork Chop »

DaveKCMO wrote:7th and 8th are the next targets.

Nice, do you have any knowledge on when this may happen and where on 8th street i.e. from Broadway to....???
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by DaveKCMO »

unfortunately, no.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by Pork Chop »

DaveKCMO wrote:unfortunately, no.

Thank you anyway. It's good news all around.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by DaveKCMO »

a proposal to convert 12th Street has been floated.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by Gretz »

Can someone remind me why, as a progressive, frequently on foot or bike urbanite I'm supposed to be for one-way to two-way conversions? Is it just to make downtown more accessible to suburbanites? Does it calm traffic, and how much, if so? Because i have to say that I absolutely hate it as a pedestrian, cyclist and motorist. As a motorist, on any night where downtown is busy enough to slow down broadway and Grand, happily more and more often the case, it seems impossible to move north-south on any street west of Oak due to the loss of dedicated turn lanes. I often end up sitting through entire light cycles without a single car getting through due to people waiting for left turns on newly single lane two-way streets like Walnut, Baltimore and Wyandotte. I also lament the loss of left on red. As a cyclist I now have to deal with constant oncoming traffic, frequently frustrated motorists in the situation I just mentioned aggresively seeking a window to turn left and often ignoring pedestrians and me on my bike. Going with the traffic is tough too as, when there are parked cars, I'm forced into the only directional lane and motorists are tempted to try to "squeeze" in with me in our single lane or are frustrated about be unable to move faster. I frequently have to stop in the only lane to make a left too, waiting for traffic to pass with people squeezing past or being inconvenienced or even laying on their horns out of ignorance. It's just way more uncomfortable to ride than it was on one-ways. As a pedestrian, I now have to wait for traffic coming from two independent lights, reducing the frequency of traffic gaps (yes, I jay-walk a lot).

Overall, it just seems like driving places takes longer/is more frustrating and biking is way more uncomfortable/scary than it was on one-ways. Pedestrian-experience wise, it's a pretty minor difference but it does seem like it's harder to get a "window" to cross. The driving/walking stuff is just inconvenient/annoying but the changes to the cycling experience are bad enough that I hesitate to ride places downtown now. I used to be able to just cruise north on Walnut and south on Wyandotte, owning my lane secure in the knowledge that the few motorists one encounters could easily get around me. Now, I have to compete with motorists for a single lane or take my chances in the much heavier, faster, arterial traffic on Grand and Broadway. I'm still comfortable taking Charlotte/Holmes to get places and then peeling off onto the one-way cross streets but it's way out of my way (I live in Union Hill).

Is all this really worth a couple of miles per hour's worth of traffic calming? I'd be surprised if it doesn't actually increase the number of accidents with the hazards associated with head-on, two-way traffic flow, particularly left turns (my insurance claim adjuster roomy's off-the-cuff estimate is that left-turns into oncoming traffic account for "north of half" of all accidents that are NOT rear endings, by far the most common type of accident). I'm sure this debate has been had at length somewhere but didn't have much luck turning anything up with the search functionality.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by flyingember »

two-way streets doesn't calm traffic per se, what it does is reduce it drastically.

I work at 9th/Wyandotte. I bank in the 1000 block of Walnut after work a lot.

11th is one-way towards Wyandotte and Walnut was on-way NB.
So the old option to go to the bank was down to 8th, across to Grand, down to 11th and back up. that's 9.5 blocks
or down Wyandotte to 12th and back up. that's 8.5 blocks
or the worst was down Main to 12th due to traffic/light config. that's 7 blocks but with more idling

now with Walnut 2-way it's become 4 blocks with a left turn arrow. for this single destination my drive is half the distance and way easier. so people see way less of my car to get to the bank. imagine the same happening over and over with the many routes people take around downtown.

as for turns, yeah, they're hard to get right. the problem is many have a single shared N-S cycle. Look at 10th/Main for the proof. SB has a cycle with a dedicated left. NB does not. Guess which one I got stuck at for 3 light cycles one morning. 9th/Grand has this and it works well. 11th/Grand doesn't and it's painful. Walnut and Truman Rd S is the same as well. 9th/Broadway as well. They just need to fix it so each direction has a dedicated time on the light with a turn arrow at more intersections across downtown.


your parking complaints are valid and have a different fix. the city is taking over on ticketing, they didn't have near enough staff to handle the issues downtown today. they need someone full time just on Main St during rush hour. I actually had someone try to park with blinkers in the only driving lane (with no parking lane) on Main one time during rush hour! Interestingly I expect the streetcar to help a ton on Main. That UPS truck that blocks a lane at 9th will be gone!
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by bahua »

I shudder to think of how bad traffic will be in the first couple months of the streetcar's operation, as bewildered suburbanites, unaware of the existence of streets downtown that are not Main, Broadway, and Grand, adjust to the relative lack of Main's utility, as related to getting to the parking garages on Main by the same route as they now(still quite foolishly) take.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by flyingember »

bahua wrote:I shudder to think of how bad traffic will be in the first couple months of the streetcar's operation, as bewildered suburbanites, unaware of the existence of streets downtown that are not Main, Broadway, and Grand, adjust to the relative lack of Main's utility, as related to getting to the parking garages on Main by the same route as they now(still quite foolishly) take.
luckily the track installation closings will force people to learn alternative routes. and having a comprehensive N-S and E-W detour setup will be critical for this.

when the Main St Bridge closed you saw a ton of people coming from I-35 follow Truman Rd toward Main and get shunted onto Baltimore. I was surprised people weren't taking Broadway until I realized no one accounted for cross traffic with the detour plans. Then by the end of the closing there was almost no traffic at Baltimore as people learned other routes.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by Eon Blue »

It calms traffic by reducing the lane options for cars differing speeds. With a 2-lane, one-way street if there's a slower motorist in one lane, the faster one can pass them and keep on speeding. If it's one lane each way, this can't happen. Having two lanes going one way also gives the motorist fewer subconscious cues to moderate their speed; it feels more wide open and having only one lane per direction dampens that.

It helps businesses because if they're on a one-way street they may only get primarily morning or evening traffic, reducing their visibility. With a two-way street they get traffic at all times of the day.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by shinatoo »

Biggest problem I have with downtown traffic are the idiots that pull into an intersection before they can clear it and wind up blocking traffic through a whole cycle.

Also, learn that three rights is the same as a left.
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Re: No More One-Way Streets in Downtown...

Post by kboish »

shinatoo wrote:Also, learn that three rights is the same as a left.
This should be posted all throughout DT. It should be the norm in situations with small two way streets---if theres no turn lane and you're in traffic and you try to make a left you're an ass.
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