KCRag Forum

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:43 pm**

What about the stretch of retail buildings to E? They are pretty scrappy yet define early Westport. Is concerning that as more move into Westport that don't value its history more won't care if scrappy buildings are torn down. There's isn't a single Westport building that has any significant architectural relevance - yet all of those over 100 years old help define the early Westport era. It's the sum of the buildings, not any one of them.

The bank building should not have been torn down. Not surprising a pro development site doesn't care. I'm pro development but a good compromise would have been still a decent sized Opus project in the very large lot.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:53 pm**

If you enjoyed the building for its scrappiness, that’s valid. I might disagree, but to each their own.

However, you can’t defend it as historic, since it lacked anything, physical or otherwise, that would make it historic. Everything it contributed to early Westport was long gone by the time it got demolished.

All this is coming from me, the same person who got upset by the Lane Building getting torn down.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:53 pm**

But why can't a 1970's restoration be historic? Particularly one that was part of KC's first sustainable redevelopment districts.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:56 pm**

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:53 pm If you enjoyed the building for its scrappiness, that’s valid. I might disagree, but to each their own.

So it's OK to tear down the other scrappy retail buildings? Like where Bistro 303 and AZ Trading are.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:05 pm**

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:53 pm But why can't a 1970's restoration be historic? Particularly one that was part of KC's first sustainable redevelopment districts.

Replacement, not restoration. The original fascade was heavily modified in the 1940s to a different style. They did a decent job with the look but It isn't 1970s architecture either which could have period significance.

https://www.historickansascity.org/wp-c ... d-size.pdf

The only historic financial institution in the survey area is the 1906 Westport Bank building at 331 Westport Road. The nineteenth century red brick building was heavily altered in 1946, when it received a classically-ornamented façade, and again in 1977-78, when a new brick façade was installed to make it look old again. While the multiple alterations have compromised its architectural integrity, the building retains its original two-story form and a prominent location at the corner of Broadway Boulevard and Westport Road.

They couldn't find anything more redeeming than the number of floors and used the term "compromised architectural integrity"

You can see this in google street view. the east side looks to be original and has brick lintels over windows and the window frames themselves have curved tops
the fascade replacement on the street sides have stone lintels or brick curves and the windows are square. They didn't try to do a restoration or even the same look again, it's a brand new design. You can see the same thing done post-2000 with new buildings and it's no more historic then than now.

The raw cinder blocks are especially historic....

You can tell which materials are clearly newer because the drive thru has the same look. If they hadn't tried to make the whole building looks faux old and instead treated the drive thru as an add-on in a different style it would have worked better

At the end of the day when a company whose goal is saving historic structure, and they're experts at it, calls something effectively worthless historically where's the historic value at?

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:06 pm**

Re: Westport
Post by flyingember » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:05 pm

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:53 pm
But why can't a 1970's restoration be historic? Particularly one that was part of KC's first sustainable redevelopment districts.
Replacement, not restoration.

[shadow]https://www.historickansascity.org/wp-c ... d-size.pdf
The only historic financial institution in the survey area is the 1906 Westport Bank building at 331 Westport Road. The nineteenth century red brick building was heavily altered in 1946, when it received a classically-ornamented façade, and again in 1977-78, when a new brick façade was installed to make it look old again. While the multiple alterations have compromised its architectural integrity, the building retains its original two-story form and a prominent location at the corner of Broadway Boulevard and Westport Road.
This was written by Rosen Preservation.

They couldn't find anything more redeeming than the number of floors and used the term "compromised architectural integrity"[/shadow]

At some point in the future, the 1970's repurposing of Westport will be considered historic in its own right. And that bank building was an important part of the neighborhood. I remember blue awnings on a red brick bank building looked so hip and made Westport feel like more than just a collection of watering holes. The River Quay was gone leaving Westport as the only oasis in the city. (The Plaza didn't count because that's where my parents went.) That bank, in all it's cheesy 70's glory, helped usher in the restoration era of this city, that's now just over 40 years old.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:53 pm**

Yeah and at some point, especially when streetcar goes by Westport, developers are going to be hot on Westport. That's great but don't tear down *anything* over say about 80s years old no matter how scrappy, which represents Westport's old identity. Is important to bring this up regularly (Westport Bank as reminder as bad decision) to build up momentum against poor projects that harm Westport's early era identity. There are many things that can go, like the shopping strip with Spectrum store, the doggie day care, the XO lot, the Amoco station and the residential planned on top of Tivoli is a good one.

Build those up with about 300-400 residents each with sidewalk retail and Westport will be in great shape without destroying Old Westport. Unfortunately too many think Westport is the corner of Westport/Penn and won't care if rest is developed.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:29 pm**

earthling wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:53 pm Yeah and at some point, especially when streetcar goes by Westport, developers are going to be hot on Westport. That's great but don't tear down *anything* over say about 80s years old no matter how scrappy, which represents Westport's old identity. Is important to bring this up regularly (Westport Bank as reminder as bad decision) to build up momentum against poor projects that harm Westport's early era identity. There are many things that can go, like the shopping strip with Spectrum store, the doggie day care, the XO lot, the Amoco station and the residential planned on top of Tivoli is a good one.

Build those up with about 300-400 residents each with sidewalk retail and Westport will be in great shape without destroying Old Westport. Unfortunately too many think Westport is the corner of Westport/Penn and won't care if rest is developed.

"Build on those" has little practical value if the current owners like running a strip mall.

Remember that developers can only buy and build where owners will sell. If the only person willing to sell has a 100 year old building there better be real preservation teeth in place to protect it. Demolition by neglect is a real thing our code doesn't really account for.

We need real codified standards around historic buildings. I like the look of an old brick building next to a new high rise, it makes for good character.

And if there's an insistence on saving everything, that's going to come with a cost. So be ready to give up something to get the funds to make sure buildings stick around. The cost for more inspectors comes to mind.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:00 pm**

Hence the concern. If no one cares and developers can do whatever they please, the real Westport will likely get torn down a building at a time.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:07 pm**

Or, the developers did their homework and found a prime location in westport WITHOUT a historical building on it.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:23 pm**

The bank building apparently wasn't considered historic so is any Westport building? They are all scrappy so may as well let it all be torn down, right?

It will be a while before it picks up steam but when streetcar is looking more solidified, expect this to occur one building at a time.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:08 pm**

The Opus project is just another crap box with zero architectural merit. There, I said it.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:50 pm**

For a lego block building, it's not that bad. Would've complemented the bank building nicely. Expect most lowish-rises to look lego block.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:07 pm**

Steve52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:08 pm The Opus project is just another crap box with zero architectural merit. There, I said it.

As was the bank building demolished to make it happen. Why do people give the old boxes so much leeway?

Posted: **Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:59 am**

Steve52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:08 pm The Opus project is just another crap box with zero architectural merit. There, I said it.

Disagree, it looks better then the parcel looked before it was built. I also think that the added density and thus tax revenue far out weights the good but not great architecture.

Posted: **Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:13 am**

Steve52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:08 pm The Opus project is just another crap box with zero architectural merit. There, I said it.

If that makes units more affordable, increasing the social equity of the project, I'm good with that.

Posted: **Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:42 am**

the Opus project will transform a very highly visible corner of Westport, and spur development opportunities East of Broadway. Look at HopCat across the street. It blends in well with the other buildings as you get more into the "heart" of the entertainment district. I think you will see a nice new mix of projects. Honestly I hope it spurs more sidewalk improvements, lighting, etc. to provide more entertainments options that will run from Main street down WestPort Rd in the heart of Westport. I also like the proposed development in the Tivoli building area. Westport needs to be more of a neighborhood with entertainment & dining options, retail etc. The crossroads is becoming this way fast and will be great to see Wesport go this same route while keeping the charm that makes it Westport, which I think is happening.

Posted: **Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:45 pm**

Posted: **Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:46 pm**

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:42 am the Opus project will transform a very highly visible corner of Westport, and spur development opportunities East of Broadway. Look at HopCat across the street. It blends in well with the other buildings as you get more into the "heart" of the entertainment district. I think you will see a nice new mix of projects. Honestly I hope it spurs more sidewalk improvements, lighting, etc. to provide more entertainments options that will run from Main street down WestPort Rd in the heart of Westport. I also like the proposed development in the Tivoli building area. Westport needs to be more of a neighborhood with entertainment & dining options, retail etc. The crossroads is becoming this way fast and will be great to see Wesport go this same route while keeping the charm that makes it Westport, which I think is happening.

That's what Westport should be aspiring too. I have to wonder if there was more density and permanent residents, if incidents like what happened last night in Westport be fewer and further between?

Posted: **Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:29 pm**

Highlander wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:46 pm
dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:42 am
That's what Westport should be aspiring too. I have to wonder if there was more density and permanent residents, if incidents like what happened last night in Westport be fewer and further between?

Crime in KCMO is our achille's heel. It's literally killing us. You'd have to be nut's, deluded, or oblivious and uninformed to move into an Opus apartment as things stand at the moment.