Westport

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
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DColeKC
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Re: Westport

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Goonies wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:10 pm PNL is a watered down overpriced and overrated venue. I like how during the BIG 12 tournament is here the drink I pay $8 is now $12 and they have some douchey white guy doing a cover for "All About The Benjamins" on the main stage. You can have that.

Leave Westport alone
Maybe if Westport implored common and smart business practices like dynamic pricing and brought in some unique entertainment, it wouldn’t be a shell of its former self at the moment. Instead, they tried the anti-PNL strategy going so far to produce signs saying, “thanks for not visiting the power and light district”. Cheap beer and a hammered hipster playing sad songs acoustically in the corner only goes so far. Believe it or not, people will pay the higher prices during events and they find a random dorky white guy performing a Biggie song word for word entertaining.

Oh, and safety. People want to be safe.
earthling
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Re: Westport

Post by earthling »

Would be even better if Westport gave up on trying to be an entertainment district and rather become a neighborhood center still inviting to metro that happens to have some low key entertainment at times. As Midtown population builds up, Westport biz will become less dependent on drawing from outside 64111.
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DColeKC
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Re: Westport

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Goonies wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:44 pm
DColeKC wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:32 pm
Goonies wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:10 pm PNL is a watered down overpriced and overrated venue. I like how during the BIG 12 tournament is here the drink I pay $8 is now $12 and they have some douchey white guy doing a cover for "All About The Benjamins" on the main stage. You can have that.

Leave Westport alone
Maybe if Westport implored common and smart business practices like dynamic pricing and brought in some unique entertainment, it wouldn’t be a shell of its former self at the moment. Instead, they tried the anti-PNL strategy going so far to produce signs saying, “thanks for not visiting the power and light district”. Cheap beer and a hammered hipster playing sad songs acoustically in the corner only goes so far. Believe it or not, people will pay the higher prices during events and they find a random dorky white guy performing a Biggie song word for word entertaining.

Oh, and safety. People want to be safe.
Nobody found it entertaining they weren't even paying attention. The reason they were there was because ISU was playing most Kansas Citians dont even like PNL. It's totally a tourist trap. Westport some great live music venues but this board got what they wanted (a gentrified Westport) and now all of those venues are gone.
NOBODY found it interesting? - Doubtful but subjective.
MOST locals don’t like PNL?

As someone with intimate knowledge of the demographics that make up the PNL customer, 80% of the revenue comes from local customers. The place does do very well with tourism considering it’s an entertainment district next to a popular arena.

Westport did this to itself. What the rag wanted had no impact. I loved the old gritty Westport and I used to spend a lot of time at Buzzard Beach, The Union etc.
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DColeKC
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Re: Westport

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earthling wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:44 am Would be even better if Westport gave up on trying to be an entertainment district and rather become a neighborhood center still inviting to metro that happens to have some low key entertainment at times. As Midtown population builds up, Westport biz will become less dependent on drawing from outside 64111.
100%. This is their path to a successful future. As more residential goes up I do wonder if all the Kaw bars will fade away? They’re geared towards college kids and I wouldn’t pay market rate to be next door to a college kids playground.
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chaglang
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Re: Westport

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Agreed, but it's so, so unlikely to happen without a seismic shift in mentality of the Westport businesses. They have gone all in on the entertainment district concept to the point that they've fought hard against proposals to employ smarter business practices. It's a strictly quantity-based approach which will always leave them vulnerable to better-run bar scenes around town. I had higher hopes for Ale House when it opened, but the whole neighborhood seems like it's in a race to the bottom.

If the neighborhood were truly gentrified to the point that live music venues couldn't make rent, you'd expect the bar scene not to be such a festering sore.
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Re: Westport

Post by earthling »

^The dynamics probably won't significantly change until streetcar actually running through Midtown and more residential actually takes off. Westport biz needs to realize what is failing and what is working for a changing Midtown.
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Re: Westport

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chaglang wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:12 pm Agreed, but it's so, so unlikely to happen without a seismic shift in mentality of the Westport businesses. They have gone all in on the entertainment district concept to the point that they've fought hard against proposals to employ smarter business practices. It's a strictly quantity-based approach which will always leave them vulnerable to better-run bar scenes around town. I had higher hopes for Ale House when it opened, but the whole neighborhood seems like it's in a race to the bottom.

If the neighborhood were truly gentrified to the point that live music venues couldn't make rent, you'd expect the bar scene not to be such a festering sore.
Ale House was a glimmer of hope but once the original owners sold, it’s become a mess that won’t last long term without major changes. It’s making money, possibly a lot of money but it’s one incident away from being done. That’s what these owners don’t understand. Or they do and just choose to ride the wave.
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Westport

Post by AlkaliAxel »

earthling wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:44 am Would be even better if Westport gave up on trying to be an entertainment district and rather become a neighborhood center still inviting to metro that happens to have some low key entertainment at times. As Midtown population builds up, Westport biz will become less dependent on drawing from outside 64111.
I think this is exactly right. Westport has the potential to be an amazing walkable neighborhood that keeps clinging to being an entertainment district. It’s genuinely one of the very few places that feels like you can just easily walk from apartment to restaurant, etc. It’s like River Market. The only problem is that the bars are ruining it- on the weekends they shut down all the traffic through there. And they’re bringing in so many crowds from all over that people just get shot.

I’m hoping to the streetcar helps transform this neighborhood into a real one. Katz project looks promising. But really, it’s for the best the place just has maybe a couple normal bars, and then just flood the rest of the entertainment back downtown where it should be anyway.
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Re: Westport

Post by dukuboy1 »

Hopefully with more residents in the area it can be the "slums of the Plaza" but in a good way. Trendy, artsy neighborhood that caters to others of the same vibe. There are more places in Westport now that are focus on fun eating and drinking, not $1 jello shots and such. Yes the "Kaw" bars bring that vibe but if the neighborhood shifts over time to become more of a neighborhood with entertainment venues the college party scene may fade away.

I loved the Westport party scene back in my day, and I think there are still places to find the nostalgia without the trouble, and some of those places will make it, the others will change concepts to fit the new clients. Been happening for the 27yrs I've been legal to drink and I expect it to keep happening. I think you can still keep the "dive bar" edge so to speak in some places along with other businesses. But you can see the wave building and midtown is poised to experience some explosive growth and gentrification for sure. From State Line to Main W/E and From 31st St South to the Plaza. That's a huge area that I will be very interested to see what happens. Couple that with the growth along Troost as it marches South from Hospital Hill area and you have a transformative era of mid-town about to begin. Westport may finally get what it has been searching for since the 1960's.

Not sure where the "college bars" go, or if there is even a real demand for it outside of college towns.
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Westport

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

Goonies wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:34 pm Its not the Kaw bars that are bringing the violence to Westport. That is the biggest issue with Westport.
What is bringing the violence to Westport then?
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normalthings
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Re: Westport

Post by normalthings »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:55 pm
Goonies wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:34 pm Its not the Kaw bars that are bringing the violence to Westport. That is the biggest issue with Westport.
What is bringing the violence to Westport then?
Staying open late is not helping
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Re: Westport

Post by dukuboy1 »

Not saying Kaw bars specifically are of issue, just using them as an example. Californo’s had the shooting that shut it done. Throwback has had issues, even the dance centric themes prior to it seemed to attract problems in that spot. And sounds like Ale House has changed, I’ve have not been there later than say 9-10pm in the last 3-4 months. But it sounds like some of these places change their style/concept and they have some growing pains. For some reason I recall throwback being an 80’s & 90’s nostalgia bar with NES video games & such & next door was karaoke? Im not sure. But regardless, IMO Westport is headed for some changes with Residential planned.
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Re: Westport

Post by WoodDraw »

normalthings wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:56 pm
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:55 pm
Goonies wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:34 pm Its not the Kaw bars that are bringing the violence to Westport. That is the biggest issue with Westport.
What is bringing the violence to Westport then?
Staying open late is not helping
A lot of cities stay open later than kc and do okay. I understand the sentiment, but I don’t want to lose 3am bars. I don’t have solutions though.
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Re: Westport

Post by beautyfromashes »

WoodDraw wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:59 pm A lot of cities stay open later than kc and do okay. I understand the sentiment, but I don’t want to lose 3am bars. I don’t have solutions though.
It’s the combination of late hours and cheap alcohol. It’s a bad combination and one of the two should have to go.
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Westport

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

beautyfromashes wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:06 pm
WoodDraw wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:59 pm A lot of cities stay open later than kc and do okay. I understand the sentiment, but I don’t want to lose 3am bars. I don’t have solutions though.
It’s the combination of late hours and cheap alcohol. It’s a bad combination and one of the two should have to go.
Lose the cheap then?
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Westport

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Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:15 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:06 pm
WoodDraw wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:59 pm A lot of cities stay open later than kc and do okay. I understand the sentiment, but I don’t want to lose 3am bars. I don’t have solutions though.
It’s the combination of late hours and cheap alcohol. It’s a bad combination and one of the two should have to go.
Lose the cheap then?
Yep! I’m not sure why they do it even. How many late night drinkers at 1am really care whether their drink costs $2 or $4?
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Westport

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

beautyfromashes wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:23 pm
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:15 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:06 pm
It’s the combination of late hours and cheap alcohol. It’s a bad combination and one of the two should have to go.
Lose the cheap then?
Yep! I’m not sure why they do it even. How many late night drinkers at 1am really care whether their drink costs $2 or $4?
I can attest to the fact after waking up with some hefty CC statements that drunk me gives absolutely 0 regard to price when courting young ladies.
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chaglang
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Re: Westport

Post by chaglang »

Maybe the concentration of 3am bars as an tacit city policy wasn't such a super idea. When the WRBL was trying to get the streets vacated someone mentioned that the city has traditionally been more aggressive in closing the late bars on the east side for the types of things (crime) that go on in Westport regularly. Combined with the slow death of small neighborhood bars and the promotion of entertainment districts as a way to keep neighborhoods happy and policing easier, we have a totally avoidable but now apparently unsolvable situation. It would helpful if the city showed some interest in pushing the WRBL to be more accountable, but clearly we are a long way from that.
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Re: Westport

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Not having the ability to stay open until 3am would destroy PNL. Neighborhood bars and districts are a different animal and don’t need that 3am license to be profitable as their guests tend to come out earlier and go home earlier. It’s why Johnny’s in PNL is a ghosts town by 1am but every bar upstairs will be at capacity.

This is why I say Westport messed this whole thing up by trying to go toe to toe vs PNL when there was a clear path to success in front of them.
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alejandro46
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Re: Westport

Post by alejandro46 »

I think we need more residents, lighting, and security especially in the surrounding areas. After 3am people just flood the streets and get in fights and shootings. Other than closing way earlier, I don't know if there's one "good" way to curb the ongoing violence. Its tragic every time we hear of shootings in WP, but there have been over 200 murders in KC this year alone and being in the bar district is going to continually draw large crowds and associated crime. Having better transport to get people quickly home is another solution so they don't congregate and cause trouble.
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