Chicago

Post by **mean** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:11 pm

I visited the windy city over the past weekend to play a couple rock and roll shows, and spent a good deal of time downtown and in Lincoln Park. I of course did not drive anywhere, and took either the Metra, the El, or CTA buses to get around.

I'd never been to Chicago before now, so I was quite impressed, almost to the point of not wanting to leave. The architecture is simply amazing, and there is a fantastic blend of old and new, fairly short and ridiculously tall. Several things were obvious right away: almost every building in the urban center was mixed-use, with residential playing a key role in most developments. This was true in the loop, north of the loop, and to some degree in every suburb I saw -- very unlike KC. "Vast tracts of single-family homes, subdivision-style" disease was apparent, but to a lesser degree than here. It is apparent that KC must aggresively build up density in other areas to compensate for the sprawl.

Chicago's transit system is extremely interesting, not to mention quite effective. Unfortunately, it requires very heavy subsidies. I think KC is quite lucky in this. With the El and Metra infrastructure already in place now for decades, a system based on new technologies would be a hard sell in Chicago -- they'd have to tear down or just ignore all the existing infrastructure and rebuild from scratch. KC has no such attachment to existing systems. I'm starting to think a maglev system like SkyTran for the urban core, with heavy-rail commuter lines on existing rights of way contracted to a rail company (or companies) such as Union Pacific, KC Southern, BNSF, etc, might be a mighty fine idea.

One thing that kind of depressed me is that KC never will be able to compete with Chicago. I knew it'd be drastically different, but I was not prepared for the miles and miles and miles and miles in every direction of dense urban development. Kansas City will never have that, ever. The best we can hope for are a couple districts like that with single family home neighborhoods peppered around between them. If we're lucky, we'll get some more cool urban streetscapes splitting up the neighborhoods on major throughways like Broadway, Main, 39th, etc. Not that the neighborhoods are bad, they are part of what makes KC, but I found the urban megaplex of my dreams in Chicago, and it makes me sad that no such thing is possible in my beloved hometown. We can have downtown, the bottoms, the crossroads, crown center, and parts of midtown, the plaza, the eastside, and northeast, though, and that gives us plenty of work to do.

KC0KEK · Post by **KC0KEK** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:25 pm

METRA is doing some interesting stuff with new suburb-to-suburb rail lines. They're a response to the fact that more and more people commute from their homes in one suburb to their jobs in another rather than jobs dowtown. The new line is out in the far-Western suburbs, but it won't be operational until later this decade.

KCLofts · Post by **KCLofts** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 6:13 pm

Chicago is a great town. I spent about two years there for work. But as great as it is, I don't think I could ever move there. Its very expensive and the weather is worse than KC. It gets very cold there and doesn't warm up until around late June.

I worked with a large group of Chicago residents on a project in KC. Most of them were considering leaving Chicago for a more family-friendly atmosphere. Kansas City was highly considered by some.

We go to Chicago a couple times a year to go out to eat, go to bars, do some shopping and generally have fun. That's enough for me.

nota · Post by **nota** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 8:04 pm

Christmas shopping on the loop and DT Chicago in general is awesome.

KCLofts · Post by **KCLofts** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:53 pm

Pre-Christmas is a great time to be there. You definitely know that it is Christmas time. The weather is cold, the Salvation Army bands are playing on the street corner, Marshall Field's and the other big stores are elaborately decorated. The crowds are hell, but its worth it.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:56 pm

I love Chicago too, but would never live there unless I could get a downtown condo or loft. To be honest, even if I was a multi-millionaire, I'd never leave KC. Although I wouldn't count out gettin' a seasonal condo somewhere.

Post by **bahua** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:09 am

My sister is just now moving out of Chicago, from her apartment in Old Town(between Gold Coast and Lincoln Park), my brother went to school there, and my sister goes there now. I have been there more times than I can count, because half of my cousins live there, and I grew up 2 1/2 hours away. I can safely say that yes, Chicago rocks. It is the city of cities in the inland parts of this continent, with the most amazing skyline in America, save New York, and with the easiest street layout of any city in the world.

The average population density is far and away the highest in any city as far from an Ocean as Chicago is, and you could go to a new bar and restaurant every night for years, and still not have done everything. It is the apex of culture in the Midwest, and has one of the most well-ridden public transit systems in the country.

That said, it definitely has its problems, and like comparisons with KC, it's problems are greater too. Corruption and racism still plagues the city government, while the school district is one of the worst in the nation. The southern half of the city, compared with its northern counterpart, is a ruin of destitute neighborhoods and rusty old abandoned steel mills, interspersed with highrise housing projects stretching south to the horizon.

Nevertheless, I would love to live in a city like Chicago, but not Chicago itself. That is only because I grew up around it. I went there dozens of times a year, growing up, and I have earned free flights traveling there, since I moved here. I know Chicago, and that's the biggest reason I don't want to live there. I will acknowledge its greatness, and wish it well, but I will never live there, given a choice.

But, to say that KC will never be like that, in my opinion, is a refreshing thought, because if things go the way I choose, KC will go that way, and beyond.

Post by **chrizow** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:02 am

i've been waiting for a chicago post!

i LOVE chicago. it may be expensive, crowded, etc. compared to KC but it has a vitality and urbanity that KC just couldn't match. that's fine - Chicago is 5 times larger! - but when i get out of law school, i really hope to live there at least for a while.

Downtown - without question one of the best downtowns in the US, second only to NYC (and maybe some would prefer denver or seattle since they are a little more manageable). one think i like about downtown and the immediate surrounding city is that it is really not THAT expensive to live in a decent place. it's certainly not prohibitively expensive to live downtown, the near north side, etc. my roommate's dad just bought him a condo in Pickard Park (i think that's right) which is kind of an up and coming (gentrified) area on the near north side. chicago is probably the most accessible huge city i can think of - not overwhelming, but definitely exciting. restaurants, bars, clubs, museums. i love it. and the Lake is gorgeous.

Suburbs - the chicago suburbs are some of my favorite places in the world. if i had the dough, i would live in Evanston, Park Ridge, Wilmette, etc. over any place else in the entire middle part of the US. leafy, good neighborhoods, surprisingly friendly people, not overrun with ubiquitous chains, good pedestrian life, some of the best schools, etc. i love it.

of course, chicago has its problems, traffic and sprawl chief among them. they also have miles and miles and miles of So. Johnson County style blandness in NW Cook County into Lake County, etc. also, the desirable inner suburbs are insanely expensive. my roommate lives in Morton Grove, which is basically 50s style ranches and split levels. there is a 1,800 sq. ft split level on the corner of his street which would go for 120K in Jackson County and maybe 150K in Johnson County that is selling for $560K. insane.

to be fair, KC has a little bit of all of the above. Evanston is not unlike Brookside or Westwood or Crestwood (in terms of homes anyway), and we have isolated cool urban districts, but chicago just simply has all of the above in abundance. it's definitely a place you could live forever and never see it all. i love KC and its my hometown, but i think i'd much prefer Chicago, especially as a young single person. KC is ok, but beyond the plaza, westport/midtown, and city market, there isn't much going on IMO....

Post by **bahua** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:29 am

Give it time, and keep going to Chicago to compare.

Post by **mean** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:12 pm

Pics from my trip to chi-town:

http://meanie.kcgeek.com/gallery

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 2:02 pm

Dear God people...stop drooling.

Yes, Chicago is a LOT bigger than KC...duh!....it's similar to comparing Topeka to Kansas City. Compare Chicago to New York, LA, or San Francisco. Chicago is a Midwest big city, which says it all.

Post by **chrizow** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 2:44 pm

"Yes, Chicago is a LOT bigger than KC...duh!....it's similar to comparing Topeka to Kansas City. Compare Chicago to New York, LA, or San Francisco. Chicago is a Midwest big city, which says it all."

it really DOES say it all for me....i would prefer chicago over all those places under any circumstances. i think chicago has the shopping, nightlife, urbanity, density, etc. that i want, but it IS distinctly midwestern. it is the ONLY real "world city" in the midwest. i have a deep connection, i think, with the midwest, so for me chicago definitely reaches a certain kind of ideal. lots of people love nyc and sf and whatever (i dont know anyone besides actors and musicians who think LA has any sort of real "magic"), but for me chicago is awesome. it's REAL to me.

my $.02

Post by **mean** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 5:53 pm

Yes, Chicago is a LOT bigger than KC...duh!....it's similar to comparing Topeka to Kansas City.

Topeka is a lot closer to KC than KC is to Chicago.

Compare Chicago to New York, LA, or San Francisco.

I don't live in NY, LA, or SF, and I personally don't care how they compare to Chicago. I live in KC and I care how it compares to Chicago. That doesn't mean you have to, though.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:02 pm

mean wrote:I don't live in NY, LA, or SF, and I personally don't care how they compare to Chicago. I live in KC and I care how it compares to Chicago. That doesn't mean you have to, though.

Right now I'm comparing KC to Omaha, Oklahoma City and Tulsa.

Post by **bahua** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:46 pm

The sprawl in OKC and Tulsa matches KC's if it doesn't exceed it.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:15 pm

Feelin' sick, it's the 9th inning and the Chicago Cubs are about to lose again!

I'll refuse to watch the World Series because I absolutely hate the Yankees, Marlins and Red Sox!

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:49 pm

So sorry....I never wanted to offend the Chicago Admirers Society of America.

"A big city with people downtown...quick Loretta....get your camera!!!!"

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:21 pm

trailerkid wrote:"A big city with people downtown...quick Loretta....get your camera!!!!"

It's definitely exciting for people from KC. They're use to seein' a big city with absolutely no people downtown.

When GRID and KC snap their downtown KC photos, I can assure you that most of them are taken during rush hour, lunch time, or during special events. If peeps see pics of a downtown with empty streets, they think,"What the problem?"

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:46 pm

Que...you illustrated my point exactly.

Post by **mean** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:36 am

So sorry....I never wanted to offend the Chicago Admirers Society of America.

I'm sorry your inferiority complex makes you an asshole.