KCRag Forum

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:07 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:53 pm Strata is 100% dead

^^^ marked for future reference.

langosta wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:28 pm Unfortunately, downtown has grown from something like .5% to 1.3% of the metro population. "The people" still live in JoCo and progressively farther south.

I'd fathom a guess that geographical center of the population of KC has shifted a bit north. I feel like I saw this before and it was like NE JOCO or like 75th and State Line.

im2kull wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:43 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:07 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:53 pm Strata is 100% dead

^^^ marked for future reference.

I'll give you credit, you were right! In the residential sense.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:04 pm

langosta wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:28 pm Unfortunately, downtown has grown from something like .5% to 1.3% of the metro population. "The people" still live in JoCo and progressively farther south.

I'd fathom a guess that geographical center of the population of KC has shifted a bit north. I feel like I saw this before and it was like NE JOCO or like 75th and State Line.

Using some GIS software I have, the population center of metro KC is about where US-71 meets with Blue Parkway east of the Plaza.

GRID wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:12 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:04 pm

langosta wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:28 pm Unfortunately, downtown has grown from something like .5% to 1.3% of the metro population. "The people" still live in JoCo and progressively farther south.

I'd fathom a guess that geographical center of the population of KC has shifted a bit north. I feel like I saw this before and it was like NE JOCO or like 75th and State Line.

Using some GIS software I have, the population center of metro KC is about where US-71 meets with Blue Parkway east of the Plaza.

Kind of surprising. I would have thought it was further west. While Johnson County isn't particularly dense, there is far less unoccupied and otherwise wasted space in Johnson County than there is in the eastern burbs. The northern burbs are just too spread out to impact the population center all that much but downtown?? We must have been WAY far behind the rest of the country in terms of downtown residential. A lot going on now and for quite some time but still such a small impact on the metro's population distribution. Can't even get Target interested in a store downtown.

^ the population on the KS side drops off very fast when you go west. KCK and Shawnee etc are not developed that far west. A lot more people live east of 435 in MO than people realize and clay county is starting to fill in. While JoCo is dense, it's offset by the MO side suburbs. From that location at 71 and blue parkway, you catch everything in built up metro KC except the airport area which has few people. I would imagine the economic and wealth center of the metro is closer to 75th and state line though. Same with jobs.

And yeah, I'm really surprised by the lack of basic retail in downtown KC. I honestly don't get it. Although urban retail is really starting to struggle due to out of control shoplifting etc. Stores like urban walmarts and targets in DC are starting to close and residential growth is still going strong.

GRID wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:12 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:04 pm

langosta wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:28 pm Unfortunately, downtown has grown from something like .5% to 1.3% of the metro population. "The people" still live in JoCo and progressively farther south.

I'd fathom a guess that geographical center of the population of KC has shifted a bit north. I feel like I saw this before and it was like NE JOCO or like 75th and State Line.

Using some GIS software I have, the population center of metro KC is about where US-71 meets with Blue Parkway east of the Plaza.

Last population data?

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:21 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:12 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:04 pm

I'd fathom a guess that geographical center of the population of KC has shifted a bit north. I feel like I saw this before and it was like NE JOCO or like 75th and State Line.

Using some GIS software I have, the population center of metro KC is about where US-71 meets with Blue Parkway east of the Plaza.

Last population data?

2020. I'm pretty sure the MO side suburbs (northland/eastern jackson) added more people than JoCo in the 2010s, plus the center city added more or stabilized, but I have not looked at the numbers that closely.

Yeah I'd agree

An ordinance filed late last week would assign rights to build in the airspace above existing retail southwest of 13th and Main streets to a new developer. Presumably Cordish for 4L

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... tower.html

Strata could be taken over by Cordish now and become apartments instead.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... tower.html

It says July 12th they will review the terms.
How long would they have to sit on this and wait if they're already handling the Midland, 4L, and the two sites across Truman though?

The newly seated Finance, Governance and Public Safety Committee passed a preemptive measure that would consent to such a transfer of rights for the airspace atop existing retail southwest of 13th and Main streets. The ordinance also would clear the city to negotiate and strike new development and incentive terms with The Cordish Cos., the builder seeking the air rights, together with the Port Authority of Kansas City.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... ments.html

Have they mentioned the heights of the buildings south of Truman?

I know I've mentioned this already, but seriously, H&R really pulled a dirty trick! They teamed up with a developer who's known for not getting things done, just when their air rights were about to expire. Talk about bad timing! Now, our downtown's progress is set back because of that move.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:36 pm I know I've mentioned this already, but seriously, H&R really pulled a dirty trick! They teamed up with a developer who's known for not getting things done, just when their air rights were about to expire. Talk about bad timing! Now, our downtown's progress is set back because of that move.

It could be looked as as beneficial at this point though (with the benefit of retrospect) but had an office exclusive building been built spec right at the start of the pandemic, it would’ve been in a bad way, and likely would’ve required a whole rework to finish it out as either mixed use or total residential anyways. This is a time where the delay and ineptitude of a developer might have saved our downtown from a significant blunder.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 6:25 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:36 pm I know I've mentioned this already, but seriously, H&R really pulled a dirty trick! They teamed up with a developer who's known for not getting things done, just when their air rights were about to expire. Talk about bad timing! Now, our downtown's progress is set back because of that move.

It could be looked as as beneficial at this point though (with the benefit of retrospect) but had an office exclusive building been built spec right at the start of the pandemic, it would’ve been in a bad way, and likely would’ve required a whole rework to finish it out as either mixed use or total residential anyways. This is a time where the delay and ineptitude of a developer might have saved our downtown from a significant blunder.

The other side of that coin would be having a brand new Class A office right when major companies are downsizing to quality. Potentially leading to a headquarters move from a coast city. 1400KC doesn't give much credit to that theory though.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:36 pm I know I've mentioned this already, but seriously, H&R really pulled a dirty trick! They teamed up with a developer who's known for not getting things done, just when their air rights were about to expire. Talk about bad timing! Now, our downtown's progress is set back because of that move.

This seems a bit dramatic. One building does not downtowns progress kill. And, even if Cordish took this project, they likely wouldn't have gotten to it any faster since they consistently chew up only one project at a time.

I'll give Cordish the benefit of the doubt for handling one project at a time. It makes it much easier to make necessary adjustments. If there's a sharp uptick in demand, they can increase the size of a building that they have planned instead of being stuck with something smaller that was already under construction by time the uptick in demand was identified.

I sincerely hope with the Strata site, and the two sites south of the highway, that they decide to go as dense as possible. Get the highest population density you can, while you can, in the P&L District.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 12:07 am

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:36 pm I know I've mentioned this already, but seriously, H&R really pulled a dirty trick! They teamed up with a developer who's known for not getting things done, just when their air rights were about to expire. Talk about bad timing! Now, our downtown's progress is set back because of that move.

This seems a bit dramatic. One building does not downtowns progress kill. And, even if Cordish took this project, they likely wouldn't have gotten to it any faster since they consistently chew up only one project at a time.

You say this as they're currently working on 2 projects at the same time.

Progress is progress and had H&R not did what they did, there would likely be 3 projects happening right now by Cordish. As mentioned, possibly a good thing looking back but doesn't change the point that H&R and Copaken are simply squatters.

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 12:30 am I'll give Cordish the benefit of the doubt for handling one project at a time. It makes it much easier to make necessary adjustments. If there's a sharp uptick in demand, they can increase the size of a building that they have planned instead of being stuck with something smaller that was already under construction by time the uptick in demand was identified.

I sincerely hope with the Strata site, and the two sites south of the highway, that they decide to go as dense as possible. Get the highest population density you can, while you can, in the P&L District.

It's just smart business. This market can't handle 2 or 3 residential buildings opening at the same time asking for market rate or near market rate rent. Any cost savings they'd incur by building multiple buildings at once would be negated by units sitting empty for months and months.

That's essentially what drives the decisions, it's not about the ability to handle the work or project management. They've currently got over 2 billion worth of projects going up at the same time across the country.