KCRag Forum

FangKC wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:34 pm
The only thing that really will hurt us with these relocations is the MO/KS legislatures propossing and passing regressive voting / anti-gay/trans bills, etc.

Every "hot" state has passed 1 or both of these already as far as I can tell. Apparently these are only an issue if you have a state income tax. Trans Sports ban does have a real potential to wreck FIFA WC bids but that is TBD.

They have certainly had a cooling effect on some moves. I know a couple of people in NYC and SF who said corporate move plans were cancelled to some states because of this stuff. They are waiting it out to see if some of these things withstand constitutional muster, or are simply reversed by a lower court, or Congress deals with them in some manner. These companies are afraid they won't be able to recruit people to these states.

FangKC wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:54 pm They have certainly had a cooling effect on some moves. I know a couple of people in NYC and SF who said corporate move plans were cancelled to some states because of this stuff. They are waiting it out to see if some of these things withstand constitutional muster, or are simply reversed by a lower court, or Congress deals with them in some manner. These companies are afraid they won't be able to recruit people to these states.

Interesting to hear that something may actually be done. Thanks for sharing.

Well, Kansas does have a Democrat governor and court. Can't be *that* bad unless the legislature goes ham passes 2/3rd majority on everything which doesn't seem to be happening.

yeah it's like i always say, kansas is predominantly known for its democratic party's ability to hold an iron grip on the governor position and also for its legislature's widespread reticence to pass stupid legislation by margins that would embarrass even the kids from the lord of the flies

Kansas very recently had a governor that almost bankrupted the state, and left huge funding gaps. Even though KS has a Democrat governor right now, that didn't stop the KS legislature from passing laws to restrict that governor's ability to do some things -- especially issue public health mandates. Kris Kobach keeps trying to win statewide office. I can tell you that there are employers that will avoid Kansas if he gains office based on his past politics.

It's not always because they might disagree with the politics. Some CEOs/owners might actually agree. However, they realize that making certain moves might hurt their bottom line with half the country.

But a lot of these decisions come down to recruiting talent. Some employers realize that the most desirable talent won't live in what they consider regressive states.

I think we need to get Strata but then after that just pursue residential down there

I am still an advocate for speculative office space downtown -- just to have -- based on losing the 900 Starbucks back office jobs because there wasn't enough space already built to house them.

Companies thinking of relocating hire scouts to look around in potential cities. If they don't find large chunks of space to fill their needs, they move on quickly and narrow it down to few cities that do: Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte. They do read business and magazine reports though. Kansas City gets a lot of good press, but it just doesn't have the office space.

Ideally though, Kansas City needs to grow local companies to spur speculative office building downtown.

If what you’re saying is true then we should have no problem getting these offices up and built right? Strata should go straight up if office space like this is in need

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:55 am If what you’re saying is true then we should have no problem getting these offices up and built right? Strata should go straight up if office space like this is in need

Kansas City has long struggled to finance spec buildings. Copaken may get some underserved hate here for their vapor buildings depending on your view, but they’ve had projects ready to go for years.

But they won’t finance/build them without a tenant.

FangKC wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:52 am I am still an advocate for speculative office space downtown -- just to have -- based on losing the 900 Starbucks back office jobs because there wasn't enough space already built to house them.

Ideally though, Kansas City needs to grow local companies to spur speculative office building downtown.

You need to have lenders/developers willing to take risks and KC has never really had that for last few decades. ATL/DFW have big risk takers that are willing to spec build even with 20% Class A vacancy, KC traditionally has been spec build below 12% Class A vacancy but maybe different now given low interest rates. The lease rate of Class A also a factor.

Absorption is negative, sub=leasing is going up creating more vacancy in KC and across country. Newmark/Zimmer expects negative absorption for next 3-4 quarters. Newmark also expects more flex space usage, which might mean IE WeWork expands space in Lightwell and PlexPod too but flex workers tend to spend fewer days in office.

See office thread...
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=20102&start=160

If the fiasco of H&R side stepping the established agreement didn't happen, I feel Cordish would be near ground breaking at this point on an office building project in this location. They've had great success in St Louis with office space and plan more there.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:04 pm If the fiasco of H&R side stepping the established agreement didn't happen, I feel Cordish would be near ground breaking at this point on an office building project in this location. They've had great success in St Louis with office space and plan more there.

Didn't Copaken basically wrestle that away from Cordish? That really sucks because Copaken will never build Strata. At least there was a chance with Cordish.

Copaken comes across as a project/parcel hog, and many of their projects don't pan out, or take numerous years.

An example, 12th and Grand. Had they not interfered, I believe the Law Building renovation would have been completed, and people would be living there now. That entire situation was very suspicious anyway. Mysterious out-of-town developer wanting the parcel, but the Law Building had to be demolished first, and very quickly. Then that mysterious party dropped out AFTER the demolition, and Copaken ended up with the rights to develop. Mysterious out-of-town developer was never identified.

Strata, combined with 3 light, looked like the final piece to make P&L district look like it was just jam packed. It would've been just surrounded by buildings at that point.

The Law Building’s loss makes my blood boil

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:16 pm The Law Building’s loss makes my blood boil

Yep. That pissed me off so bad at the time. IT's still a parking lot today and probably will be for at least another decade. Copaken sucks. With all the office space they do have, it's surprising they are so bad at development since it would only help their existing space.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:11 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:04 pm If the fiasco of H&R side stepping the established agreement didn't happen, I feel Cordish would be near ground breaking at this point on an office building project in this location. They've had great success in St Louis with office space and plan more there.

Didn't Copaken basically wrestle that away from Cordish? That really sucks because Copaken will never build Strata. At least there was a chance with Cordish.

H&R basically negotiated and extended their air rights originally meant for tower 2. Obviously Cordish fully supported H&R building a second tower but technically had second dibs if they decided to not build. In some weird twist they got Copaken involved and essentially pushed Cordish out of the equation. Likely due to historical need between all three.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:53 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:11 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:04 pm If the fiasco of H&R side stepping the established agreement didn't happen, I feel Cordish would be near ground breaking at this point on an office building project in this location. They've had great success in St Louis with office space and plan more there.

Didn't Copaken basically wrestle that away from Cordish? That really sucks because Copaken will never build Strata. At least there was a chance with Cordish.

H&R basically negotiated and extended their air rights originally meant for tower 2. Obviously Cordish fully supported H&R building a second tower but technically had second dibs if they decided to not build. In some weird twist they got Copaken involved and essentially pushed Cordish out of the equation. Likely due to historical need between all three.

Yeah, the good ol boy network wins and KC loses again.

I know a lot of people give Corish are hard time, but they are the only people building high end new construction towers of above 20 stories in the city and they are much more likely to bring a new office tower to downtown than any local developer.

Are we still waiting on Waddell Reed building to lease to get this project kicked off?