KCRag Forum

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:28 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:44 pm The Garment District is operated by Cordish, so they won't give it up unless it's a great opportunity. They understand the importance of local retail.

Because the district is thriving with that one remaining store? Can it even be called a district with one store. What store are you really worried about on that block. Yardhouse stays but the other spaces are blank!

I'm not saying anyone is worried about it. I'm saying I don't see Strata being interested in the Garment District space, not for 40-50k/month. If anything, Cordish will lease it to some 3rd party but it won't be Strata or any of the tenants in the Strata building.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:46 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:28 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:44 pm The Garment District is operated by Cordish, so they won't give it up unless it's a great opportunity. They understand the importance of local retail.

Because the district is thriving with that one remaining store? Can it even be called a district with one store. What store are you really worried about on that block. Yardhouse stays but the other spaces are blank!

I'm not saying anyone is worried about it. I'm saying I don't see Strata being interested in the Garment District space, not for 40-50k/month. If anything, Cordish will lease it to some 3rd party but it won't be Strata or any of the tenants in the Strata building.

Im 90% sure I read somewhere that Strata will make use of sky lobbies.

Large entrance lobbies were a status symbol for companies in big cities starting in the 1950s. Go into most office buildings before that and the lobbies were smaller. Basically it would be a narrow corridor with an elevator bank on one side, or both. Most base street-level space went to retail.

I've been in some of these big lobbies in NYC, and they are mostly a waste of valuable space. Some have since been sectioned off and converted into more offices (mostly banks) or retail. The GM Building there (59th and Fifth Avenue) used to have a mammoth lobby where they displayed automobiles, but it was sectioned off later. Now CBS News has studio space there, and I think there is an Apple Store on the other side.

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:01 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:46 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:28 pm
Because the district is thriving with that one remaining store? Can it even be called a district with one store. What store are you really worried about on that block. Yardhouse stays but the other spaces are blank!

I'm not saying anyone is worried about it. I'm saying I don't see Strata being interested in the Garment District space, not for 40-50k/month. If anything, Cordish will lease it to some 3rd party but it won't be Strata or any of the tenants in the Strata building.

Im 90% sure I read somewhere that Strata will make use of sky lobbies.

"Coffee shop retail space on Ground Level.
'Sky Lobby’ available for tenant fit-out space"

Do we have an estimate yet for how tall this will be? Looking at other new office buildings (like Centenne Tower 2) they have rage 14-15 feet per floor putting Strata around 350-375 feet tall.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:17 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:47 pm So the existing unused space to install a grand lobbey isn't enough?

No, the unused section would just be large enough for possible up and down escalators to 2nd floor space, elevators and a guard desk. Even taking the Garment District wouldn’t make enough space for a lobby half as large as H&R Block’s, for example. I am curious what the original plan was for this building under the original design plan, which was a second tower for Block. I know Block has some steel on their building facing where the new tower would be. Did they envision a connecting walkway? I can’t think they envisioned their employees walking back and forth outside to get to a meeting in the other building.

The former Jos A Bank space and another space that's never been used isn't enough for a "grand lobby"?

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0982167 ... 384!8i8192

mRoyal wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:40 pm The former Jos A Bank space and another space that's never been used isn't enough for a "grand lobby"?

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0982167 ... 384!8i8192

Jos A Bank, empty space, section for original small lobby and Garment District would be. Would likely include some internally open retail (Coffee Shop or Panera-type). 2nd story “sky lobby” some have proposed doesn’t make sense. At the rental rates Strata is proposing, it’d be better financially to rent the ground space from Cordish for the lobby and rent out 2nd floor as commercial at a higher rate. Cordish should (perhaps has) propose it. Would fill empty space that’s never been rented and Garment District can be moved next to similar retail like Rally House.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:47 pm

mRoyal wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:40 pm The former Jos A Bank space and another space that's never been used isn't enough for a "grand lobby"?

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0982167 ... 384!8i8192

Jos A Bank, empty space, section for original small lobby and Garment District would be. Would likely include some internally open retail (Coffee Shop or Panera-type). 2nd story “sky lobby” some have proposed doesn’t make sense. At the rental rates Strata is proposing, it’d be better financially to rent the ground space from Cordish for the lobby and rent out 2nd floor as commercial at a higher rate. Cordish should (perhaps has) propose it. Would fill empty space that’s never been rented and Garment District can be moved next to similar retail like Rally House.

The “sky lobby” would be the first floor on top of the parking garage. There’s too much of a disconnect having the lobby on the ground level and needing to travel past a parking garage to actually get to the office building. This will likely be like two light where the first floor on top of the parking garage (8) is the amenity space. I’m sure 3rd party tenants will come along regardless as the empty spaces become more valuable with the building of strata.

Generally, how do parking garage floor heights compare with the heights of floors dedicated to residential or office uses? My impression has always been that parking floors are not as tall as the others. Is that true?

In a podium setup like this will have, yes, the garage floors are typically lower floor to floor than the office floors. Though rarely by a drastic amount (greater than 5 ft)

It’s not the visible floor height, it’s the lack of the space between floors, the interstitial space

A standard house might have 10” of mechanical space with 8-9 foot ceilings . I found references to as much as 6-8 feet for offices with 9 foot ceilings. So 15-17 feet would be common

Garages usually don’t have more than a foot or two for this space, all visible, and I found one on the Plaza with 6.5’ clearance. The garage I get to use is 7’ One modern p&l garage is 8’2”

So a garage is going to be closer to a house in scale, about 2/3 the height of an office floor

So you can roughly say three garage floors will fit in the space of two office floors

Thanks, guys, for the information. I appreciate it.

Standard floor heights on Class-A commercial is 15-17' to allow for contiguous space; recognizing environmental and services are overhead.

Parking Garages are 8'-9'.

kenrbnj wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:23 am Standard floor heights on Class-A commercial is 15-17' to allow for contiguous space; recognizing environmental and services are overhead.

Parking Garages are 8'-9'.

Can they structurally make the garage where every other floor/ceiling could be removed and converted to office space when that becomes more valuable than space for cars?

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:35 am

kenrbnj wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:23 am Standard floor heights on Class-A commercial is 15-17' to allow for contiguous space; recognizing environmental and services are overhead.

Parking Garages are 8'-9'.

Can they structurally make the garage where every other floor/ceiling could be removed and converted to office space when that becomes more valuable than space for cars?

I’m sure it’s possible to convert a parking garage into office space down the road but would be a massively expensive project. You essentially would have to also remove half of the floors since they’re sloped. The columns and elevator shaft would basically be the only thing staying and I’m not sure how removing floors affects the structural integrity.

An opinion:

I would not specify a building atop a parking structure. ..Too vivid recollections of the 1993 WTC bombing and other parking structure fires. ..But (pride) height and maximization of footprint drives practice.

kenrbnj wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:50 pm An opinion:

I would not specify a building atop a parking structure. ..Too vivid recollections of the 1993 WTC bombing and other parking structure fires. ..But (pride) height and maximization of footprint drives practice.

I’d actually argue that this could be a driving factor to force utilization of the garage near P&L for the next tower. Regardless of what people think of KC that’s actually a serious issue. No one ever thinks there is going to be an attack in a relatively minor city (in the eyes of the U.S./Internationally anyways) but look at the OKC bombing. It’s at least an issue that should be address, regardless of how minor.

Groundbreaking in late summer 2020 per Kevin Collison.

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:58 pm Groundbreaking in late summer 2020 per Kevin Collison.

Hmm. I thought it was Spring 2020 per his earlier article. Wondering why they are dragging their feet?

There isn't much site prep right? Why the delay?