OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)

[langosta]

I'll give Cordish the benefit of the doubt for handling one project at a time. It makes it much easier to make necessary adjustments. If there's a sharp uptick in demand, they can increase the size of a building that they have planned instead of being stuck with something smaller that was already under construction by time the uptick in demand was identified.

I sincerely hope with the Strata site, and the two sites south of the highway, that they decide to go as dense as possible. Get the highest population density you can, while you can, in the P&L District.

It's just smart business. This market can't handle 2 or 3 residential buildings opening at the same time asking for market rate or near market rate rent. Any cost savings they'd incur by building multiple buildings at once would be negated by units sitting empty for months and months.

That's essentially what drives the decisions, it's not about the ability to handle the work or project management. They've currently got over 2 billion worth of projects going up at the same time across the country.

Having 4-5 sites with incentives ready to go sounds like squatting to me. Not Copaken level but still some level of squatting. The city was right that it did and will once again in the future need to attract high paying jobs to downtown. There is still no place for high quality jobs to go downtown and they continue to go to OP/JoCo

[DColeKC]

I'll give Cordish the benefit of the doubt for handling one project at a time. It makes it much easier to make necessary adjustments. If there's a sharp uptick in demand, they can increase the size of a building that they have planned instead of being stuck with something smaller that was already under construction by time the uptick in demand was identified.

I sincerely hope with the Strata site, and the two sites south of the highway, that they decide to go as dense as possible. Get the highest population density you can, while you can, in the P&L District.

It's just smart business. This market can't handle 2 or 3 residential buildings opening at the same time asking for market rate or near market rate rent. Any cost savings they'd incur by building multiple buildings at once would be negated by units sitting empty for months and months.

That's essentially what drives the decisions, it's not about the ability to handle the work or project management. They've currently got over 2 billion worth of projects going up at the same time across the country.

Having 4-5 sites with incentives ready to go sounds like squatting to me. Not Copaken level but still some level of squatting. The city was right that it did and will once again in the future need to attract high paying jobs to downtown. There is still no place for high quality jobs to go downtown and they continue to go to OP/JoCo

The difference is one developer entered into a long-term master development agreement that covered several blocks. Part of that agreement was the understanding that it was market dependent and likely to take 15 or more years to fully come to fruition. Another part of that agreement was the air rights going to them after h&r got 10 years to do something or move on. It was just dirty and done by two entities with a poor track record of getting things out of the conference room and into the sky.

We need high quality jobs downtown, but build it and hope they come isn't a winning strategy. The city and state need to figure out the hook to get them to come and our federal government needs to figure out how to get people back to work or a more balanced in-office and WFH situation. I know people who are refusing to return to the office and will quit before doing so.

[WoodDraw]

I completely reject the premise that cordish would have built anything here. Their complaint was that they want complete control of the district.

[GRID]

I completely reject the premise that cordish would have built anything here. Their complaint was that they want complete control of the district.

Yeah. Cordish has been awesome, but them alone controlling too much land would be nearly as bad as Tower Properties etc. They seem to only be able to do one building every 4-5 years or so. Again, it's awesome what Cordish has done, but KC needs several tower cranes up at a time building apartment buildings. At the Cordish rate, it will take decades to build the towers they want to build.

This is what scares me about a downtown stadium. KC development is still pretty slow and KC still does not have national developers doing major projects there (we will see if the lux living tower goes up as that might finally get KC some attention from national high rise developers). I want a downtown stadium, but my fear is that ten years after it opens, there might be one 20 story tower (ten floors on a ten story garage) and one or two 5 over ones. The Royals need to have financing and developers lined up at the same time they announce a new stadium.

Sorry off topic. Just saying I agree. If cordish had that block all along, they would just be sitting on it still. KC needs more than just Cordish to build stuff.

[langosta]

I completely reject the premise that cordish would have built anything here. Their complaint was that they want complete control of the district.

Yeah. Cordish has been awesome, but them alone controlling too much land would be nearly as bad as Tower Properties etc. They seem to only be able to do one building every 4-5 years or so. Again, it's awesome what Cordish has done, but KC needs several tower cranes up at a time building apartment buildings. At the Cordish rate, it will take decades to build the towers they want to build.

This is what scares me about a downtown stadium. KC development is still pretty slow and KC still does not have national developers doing major projects there (we will see if the lux living tower goes up as that might finally get KC some attention from national high rise developers). I want a downtown stadium, but my fear is that ten years after it opens, there might be one 20 story tower (ten floors on a ten story garage) and one or two 5 over ones. The Royals need to have financing and developers lined up at the same time they announce a new stadium.

Sorry off topic. Just saying I agree. If cordish had that block all along, they would just be sitting on it still. KC needs more than just Cordish to build stuff.

75% agree. there had been rumors Cordish was deep into plans for a highrise hotel on the Strata site. Maybe it would be built on if they had done a hotel. Otherwise they would be sitting on it still I'm sure

[GRID]

The city would not have given incentives for a hotel, it was too close to Loews opening and so it's unlikely it would have been built.

Hopefully a large hotel is one of the first things that goes up with a new stadium, but even that is probably wishful thinking unless the Royals and or the city help make it happen. Otherwise you might end up with a suburban looking hilton garden in or something in east village and that's about it. (based on development near other MLB stadiums like Pittsburgh, Cleveland etc).

[TheSmokinPun]

I don't think we will have to worry about a suburban looking hotel in downtown after what went down with the Drury. We're farther along than that at least.

[KC_Ari]

I don't think we will have to worry about a suburban looking hotel in downtown after what went down with the Drury. We're farther along than that at least.

Other than the existing Holiday Inn on Admiral.

[langosta]

The city would not have given incentives for a hotel, it was too close to Loews opening and so it's unlikely it would have been built.

Hopefully a large hotel is one of the first things that goes up with a new stadium, but even that is probably wishful thinking unless the Royals and or the city help make it happen. Otherwise you might end up with a suburban looking hilton garden in or something in east village and that's about it. (based on development near other MLB stadiums like Pittsburgh, Cleveland etc).

P&L agreement includes a hotel afaik. I don’t think the city can back out of that one.

[beautyfromashes]

This is what scares me about a downtown stadium. KC development is still pretty slow and KC still does not have national developers doing major projects there (we will see if the lux living tower goes up as that might finally get KC some attention from national high rise developers). I want a downtown stadium, but my fear is that ten years after it opens, there might be one 20 story tower (ten floors on a ten story garage) and one or two 5 over ones. The Royals need to have financing and developers lined up at the same time they announce a new stadium.

I've always said the best incentive the city government could ever provide would be to outright buy JE Dunn a new tower crane. Right now, that is one of the major pieces that keep there being increased construction downtown. Just pay for it...outright. Construction companies are very cautious to buy new assets hoping to get by with what they have, but if they have an asset they will use it.

[GRID]

JE Dunn is short on tower cranes??? How is that even possible? There are hardly any tower cranes up in KC at any given time. I recall JE Dunn having six tower cranes up at once (at one site) when they were building the IRS complex and I'm sure they had more in use at other sites. So they have cranes, but maybe they are all in different markets or something.

[beautyfromashes]

JE Dunn is short on tower cranes??? How is that even possible? There are hardly any tower cranes up in KC at any given time. I recall JE Dunn having six tower cranes up at once (at one site) when they were building the IRS complex and I'm sure they had more in use at other sites. So they have cranes, but maybe they are all in different markets or something.

I thought they had only two dedicated to the Kansas City market?

[GRID]

This was quite a construction site. Still wish they had built the baseball stadium here instead of the IRS.

[beautyfromashes]

^ I'll ask how many they have that are consistently used in Kansas City or located here when not in use.

[GRID]

JE Dunn is short on tower cranes??? How is that even possible? There are hardly any tower cranes up in KC at any given time. I recall JE Dunn having six tower cranes up at once (at one site) when they were building the IRS complex and I'm sure they had more in use at other sites. So they have cranes, but maybe they are all in different markets or something.

I thought they had only two dedicated to the Kansas City market?

nah, they have more than that. Even though KC doesn't building towers like crazy, there are typically several JE Dun cranes up across the metro at any given time building hospitals, office buildings, hotels etc. I think JE Dunn had several cranes building the water treatment facility in Leawood for several years. I would guess they have 8-10 cranes stored KC. KC Is the only big market around there and I can't imagine them trucking in cranes from another JE Dunn market. Not sure where they store them. I thought at one time they were over in KCK's industrial district.

[chingon]

This was quite a construction site. Still wish they had built the baseball stadium here instead of the IRS.

Would have been a great site.

[DColeKC]

I completely reject the premise that cordish would have built anything here. Their complaint was that they want complete control of the district.

Correction: Their complaint was they had a deal and that deal wasn't honored. Drawings and plans were underway, but not for office or residential.

And yes, usually when a developer enters into a long term, master development deal, they'd like complete control of the area they agreed to master develop.

[DColeKC]

I completely reject the premise that cordish would have built anything here. Their complaint was that they want complete control of the district.

Yeah. Cordish has been awesome, but them alone controlling too much land would be nearly as bad as Tower Properties etc. They seem to only be able to do one building every 4-5 years or so. Again, it's awesome what Cordish has done, but KC needs several tower cranes up at a time building apartment buildings. At the Cordish rate, it will take decades to build the towers they want to build.

This is what scares me about a downtown stadium. KC development is still pretty slow and KC still does not have national developers doing major projects there (we will see if the lux living tower goes up as that might finally get KC some attention from national high rise developers). I want a downtown stadium, but my fear is that ten years after it opens, there might be one 20 story tower (ten floors on a ten story garage) and one or two 5 over ones. The Royals need to have financing and developers lined up at the same time they announce a new stadium.

Sorry off topic. Just saying I agree. If cordish had that block all along, they would just be sitting on it still. KC needs more than just Cordish to build stuff.

You're correct, KC does need more than just Cordish to build stuff, but we're talking about one district here that they agreed to develop. There's a very high probability something would be done or going up on the Strata site had H&R not played games. It was so far down the planning path and small steps were being taken to prepare for construction when that whole thing took place.

[WoodDraw]

I completely reject the premise that cordish would have built anything here. Their complaint was that they want complete control of the district.

Correction: Their complaint was they had a deal and that deal wasn't honored. Drawings and plans were underway, but not for office or residential.

And yes, usually when a developer enters into a long term, master development deal, they'd like complete control of the area they agreed to master develop.

HR Block always had rights to that area. Cordish got pissy because they tried to sublease them.

The point remains, cordish doesn't develop projects at the same time so this is all just academic. Cordish controls multiples spots all over, many more lucrative than this one.

[DColeKC]

I completely reject the premise that cordish would have built anything here. Their complaint was that they want complete control of the district.

Correction: Their complaint was they had a deal and that deal wasn't honored. Drawings and plans were underway, but not for office or residential.

And yes, usually when a developer enters into a long term, master development deal, they'd like complete control of the area they agreed to master develop.

HR Block always had rights to that area. Cordish got pissy because they tried to sublease them.

The point remains, cordish doesn't develop projects at the same time so this is all just academic. Cordish controls multiples spots all over, many more lucrative than this one.

Just not factual. H&R had the rights to build a second tower for 10 years. Those expired but they partnered with a developer and came up with Strata. The original deal was never intended for them to become landlords but to build a second HQ building to match or be sister building to existing tower. They didn’t even try and partner with Cordish, they went around them but they’ve always been awful downtown residents.


And, once again, Cordish is working on multiple projects in KC right now. There will likely be multiple projects at once consistently taking place over the next handful of years pending the economic landscape of course.