KCRag Forum

mister816 wrote: There u go, now u have....  and if public funds weren't used it wouldn't make it better, but it would take some sting away...  Why are you defending these actions anyway?  do you just not believe they're happening?

I don't see anyone defending "actions" of discrimination.  The consensus seems to be
  dress codes are needed
  Cordish is not racist
  implementation of dress code enforcement is lacking and needs to be addressed

I feel bad for anyone abused by the system.

who is defending what actions?  Your justifiable anger is being misplaced on people here...nobody is defending unjust enforcement of anything.

grovester wrote: ...implementation of dress code enforcement is lacking and needs to be addressed

I feel bad for anyone abused by the system.

A handfull of problems in a district that has already admitted Over Three Million individuals does NOT count as Abuse, let alone signify a common problem.

grovester wrote: I don't see anyone defending "actions" of discrimination.  The consensus seems to be
   dress codes are needed
   Cordish is not racist
   implementation of dress code enforcement is lacking and needs to be addressed

I feel bad for anyone abused by the system.

Unfortunately, while I understand and support the need for a dress code, there is no way you can enforce a laundary list of prohibitions and do it in a consistent and equitable way across the board.  Just too much room for subjectivity among the various entry points and shifts.  The willingness of some bouncers to bend the rules even slightly has the potential to make any strict interpretation elsewhere look like it is racially motivated.  I highly doubt that racism is institutionalized at the district, I've seen a pretty racially diverse crowd there every time I have visitied but perception is everything. 

agreed, these things are always push and pull, no perfect scenarios.

KCP, I do apologize if I directed my anger towards you, you were just the person who responded to my post. I ginuinely hope that you understand where I'm coming from.  My grandparents are from an era where they had to sit on the back of a bus to get around and drink from colored only water fountains.  My parents are from a generation where "Nigger" was used openly and I'm from an era where the "N" word is only used behind closed doors when I'm not around and I'm denied entrance to an establishment because of my "clothes". 

I just look at this as unfair and very frustrating because i feel like i'm being targeted because of a few bad apples and what they've done.  But I'm not them.  I don't fight in bars, I don't carry guns and I'm not out looking for trouble.  I'm out trying to talk to women and have a good time like everyone else.  And I can't because of something that is out of my control.  People HAVE to understand my anger...

Just imagine that you cooked a large $800,000,000 dollar meal for your community and having some asshole in a black shirt with a wire in his ear telling you that you can't have a bite.  THEN reading everyone else who eats that meal whenever they want tell you that it's all in your head and you can eat whenever you want...  You'd be pretty pissed right?

Not really.  I've been denied by those guys in black shirts with a wire too for my dress....maybe not at P&L but elsewhere...this to me has absolutely nothing to do with the city's support of the building of the project.  If the dress code is being used as a guise to not let minorities in (I don't believe it is) it needs to be fixed, no matter who paid for building it.

Are you telling us you've been denied access to the P&L every time?  a few times?  one time?  never?

Again I'll stress I have no problems with these businesses or ANY business having a dress code as long as it's enforced fairly.....dress codes are to maintain an attitude and atmsophere in a business, not a color.

KCPowercat wrote: Not really.  I've been denied by those guys in black shirts with a wire too for my dress....maybe not at P&L but elsewhere...this to me has absolutely nothing to do with the city's support of the building of the project.  If the dress code is being used as a guise to not let minorities in (I don't believe it is) it needs to be fixed, no matter who paid for building it.

Are you telling us you've been denied access to the P&L every time?  a few times?  one time?  never?

Again I'll stress I have no problems with these businesses or ANY business having a dress code as long as it's enforced fairly.....dress codes are to maintain an attitude and atmsophere in a business, not a color.

...hopeless

good talk.

Mister...I'd be pissed for sure. But were you saying that Michael Jackson was singled out as a pedophile because he was black?

NDTeve wrote: Mister...I'd be pissed for sure. But were you saying that Michael Jackson was singled out as a pedophile because he was black?

I think you missed his point completely. He's saying it only took a few witnesses to convince the world MJ was a pedophile, whereas we have "hundreds" of witnesses to this racial discrimination and yet some people deny that it takes place.

KCMax wrote: I think you missed his point completely. He's saying it only took a few witnesses to convince the world MJ was a pedophile,

Does it not take "only a few" witnesses to convict a man of murder? Does it not take "only one" witness to convict a man of Rape?  Sodomy?  Ignorance?

KCMax wrote: ...we have "hundreds" of witnesses to this racial discrimination and yet some people deny that it takes place.

I guess that depends on your deffinition of "Racial Discrimination", which is clearly different than mine...

...Seeing as how BOTH blacks & whites have had issues with the dress code.  I would hardly consider that "Racial" to begin with.

I'm not sure why you meant by the MJ quote. I'm certainly not saying MJ was innocent, just that people seem to believe a few witnesses in one instance, but are much more skeptical to many more witnesses in another instance.

It can still be racial discrimination if it affects both whites and blacks, but blacks much more disproportionately. At least in my opinion.

KCMax wrote: It can still be racial discrimination if it affects both whites and blacks, but blacks much more disproportionately. At least in my opinion.

But what if I told you that there are more blacks who visit the district (Thus more that will be thrown out..statistically)

or

What if I told you that more blacks break the dress code...resulting in more blacks being thrown out?

10-4.

im2kull wrote: But what if I told you that there are more blacks who visit the district (Thus more that will be thrown out..statistically)

This black majority - is that counting guys like you? 

im2kull wrote: But what if I told you that there are more blacks who visit the district (Thus more that will be thrown out..statistically)

or

What if I told you that more blacks break the dress code...resulting in more blacks being thrown out?

That would give reasons. I'm sure all of this stuff will come out in court if this comes to trial. I'm not definitely saying one way or another if Cordish is guilty of any racism. I think at worst they probably have a vague policy with some poorly trained dick bouncers who are probably harder on black people than they are on white people. That makes the most sense.

But as I can't see how anyone can definitively say they are racist, I also don't get how anyone can definitively say that Cordish is in the clear here either. Obviously none of us have seen all, or even very many of the alleged acts of discrimination. They may actually be excluding people for little more than being black. We simply don't know.

KCMax wrote: We simply don't know.

You hit the nail on the head.  That's my point.  We don't know the statistics on entry denials, entry passes, race demographics, etc.  Needless to say we know nothing.

some people are making way off assumptions about people here concerning racism and this dress code.

I could say for a fact that the dress code isn't enforced color blind 100% of the time...does that equate to "hundreds of people"?  I don't think so.....the process and bad bouncers need to be dealt with....but this is no different than any other club anywhere with even a "backwards hat" restriction....it's all about keeping out an attitude.  Does a bouncer go too far in enforcing these entry requirements (be it dress code, age, the right 'look' in the case of very upscale clubs)?  Hell yes...they do it everywhere.

this I really don't understand....

http://www.kmbc.com/news/21666033/detail.html

There are complaints and you are asked to join to help and DECLINE?