KCRag Forum

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:00 am I still like North Loop as part of removing the highway. Put parking garages in the trench.

This is far from the worst idea out there. One at Main over I-70 would connect to the streetcar and bus service and still connect well into the suburbs.

I still think the north loop is the absolute worst place for it. We have a chance to restore the grid and the density in the oldest part of town, we shouldn't blow it with a parking reliant super block. Again, it would vindicate the absurd amount of garage building and landbanking that killed off the area in the first place.

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:29 pm I still think the north loop is the absolute worst place for it. We have a chance to restore the grid and the density in the oldest part of town, we shouldn't blow it with a parking reliant super block. Again, it would vindicate the absurd amount of garage building and landbanking that killed off the area in the first place.

Yeah, but if you replace the North Loop highway with several parking garages with buildings on top how does that not help rebuild the grid except for the land just where the actual stadium is? It seems it would help reestablish the grid.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:39 pm Yeah, but if you replace the North Loop highway with several parking garages with buildings on top how does that not help rebuild the grid except for the land just where the actual stadium is? It seems it would help reestablish the grid.

There's no incentive to build many garages when there's already so much surface parking to work with. Why build when you can just maintain those lots for another eternity?

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:00 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:39 pm Yeah, but if you replace the North Loop highway with several parking garages with buildings on top how does that not help rebuild the grid except for the land just where the actual stadium is? It seems it would help reestablish the grid.

There's no incentive to build many garages when there's already so much surface parking to work with. Why build when you can just maintain those lots for another eternity?

Because you have a below grade trench with direct connections to the highway system to all parts of the metro with nothing on top of it and is directly connected on where you want to build the stadium, is next to the streetcar and is next to the River Market. The stadium is the excuse to finally redo North Loop. Forgive me if I didn’t understand the question.

FangKC wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:17 pm Yikes! Anyone but Rex Sinquefield. We need a modern-version of Ewing Kauffman.

Sinquefield kind of does have a modern vision when it comes to cities and investing in St Louis. Pretty soon all of this old money is gonna die out in KCMO. We won't have anyone to replace the Kauffman's, the Blochs, all our big "new" money is in the burbs and I don't see them investing much in the city when it comes to cultural/Civic treasures.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:05 pmBecause you have a below grade trench with direct connections to the highway system to all parts of the metro with nothing on top of it and is directly connected on where you want to build the stadium, is next to the streetcar and is next to the River Market. The stadium is the excuse to finally redo North Loop. Forgive me if I didn’t understand the question.

I have a hard time imagining that a ballpark development wouldn't take advantage of the surrounding lots for parking. I haven't seen too many downtown stadiums in cities of our size without surface parking nearby. Sure, in an ideal world, all the parking would be relegated to hidden garages and everything else would be wonderful retail and residential development, but I've seen no evidence that's what would happen.

The proper excuse to redo the north loop would be when some actual urban development is proposed. Apartments. Hotels. Offices. It should be a neighborhood. I personally want development that would move people downtown to live, not just see a game.

Now, someone's going to argue that the north loop is hopeless, and that nothing will ever happen there without something like a stadium. I disagree. Unlike places like the east village, which are well and truly cursed, the north loop lies between the river market and the financial district, and is right on the streetcar line. Its redevelopment is inevitable. It may take a long time, but I'm okay with that. See, if you build a stadium there now, it will never move, even after the structure has to be replaced. St. Louis's and Cincinnati's stayed in the same spot after being replaced, for instance. If they get the north loop land now, it would guarantee that a stadium would be there until the end of time.

I don’t think I’m explaining my thoughts very well. North Loop would be closed with a row of below grade garages built. Highways would empty onto road to the north of where the trench is now and directly access garages. On top of the garages would be all the items you wanted: hotels, condos, dining, etc. The rights to build on the garages would be sold or exchanged for the developer building the garages and having them accessible for game parking. In the second case, the only cost to the city would be road transformation. Developers would jump at the deal because they would be in prime location next to stadium, on the streetcar line and next to RM. North Loop gets redone, development happens, stadium DT in a perfect spot.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:05 pm I don’t think I’m explaining my thoughts very well. North Loop would be closed with a row of below grade garages built. Highways would empty onto road to the north of where the trench is now and directly access garages. On top of the garages would be all the items you wanted: hotels, condos, dining, etc. The rights to build on the garages would be sold or exchanged for the developer building the garages and having them accessible for game parking. In the second case, the only cost to the city would be road transformation. Developers would jump at the deal because they would be in prime location next to stadium, on the streetcar line and next to RM. North Loop gets redone, development happens, stadium DT in a perfect spot.

Your talking about spending hundreds of millions of dollars on parking garages and adding tens of thousands of spaces. Downtown doesn't need more parking.
Why not use that money to expand bus or rail service?

^ What do you think the land where North Loop is now is worth?

brewcrew1000 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:13 pm

FangKC wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:17 pm Yikes! Anyone but Rex Sinquefield. We need a modern-version of Ewing Kauffman.

Sinquefield kind of does have a modern vision when it comes to cities and investing in St Louis. Pretty soon all of this old money is gonna die out in KCMO. We won't have anyone to replace the Kauffman's, the Blochs, all our big "new" money is in the burbs and I don't see them investing much in the city when it comes to cultural/Civic treasures.

Rex Sinquefield is 74-years-old. Male life expectancy for a male in the USA is 77-years-old.

What evidence is there that Sinquefield is going to invest anything in Kansas City?

https://www.royalsreview.com/platform/a ... ew-stadium

Furthermore, academic research does not back up the claims that stadiums are benefits to the economy. Even if it did, it wouldn’t be a remotely efficient way of developing an area or spurring growth. If a city is committed to pouring half a billion dollars into its economy, it could do so actually and directly developing an area, providing services, and expanding educational opportunities. Putting it into the hands of a third party first—a third party that could leave the city on the hook for millions if it wants to relocate—is profoundly stupid.

Is a downtown stadium in Kansas City's future?

https://www.kctv5.com/news/is-a-downtow ... user-share

KCK out by Legends? Southern Johnson County? Lees Summit?

mgsports wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:07 pm KCK out by Legends? Southern Johnson County? Lees Summit?

Royals will not move from one suburban stadium to another.

Legends already has Community America ballpark.

Grill Nation briefly touched on downtown baseball in a recent episode with Copaken Brooks. A good point that Jon Copaken makes is that a new stadium is coming at some point, we need to make sure the investment is in an area that can deliver the highest ROI.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/g ... 0442215221

I haven't listened yet, but Jason is a big supporter of downtown baseball and Copaken has an interest obviously. So not surprising.

I don't think there is any support in the established downtown neighborhoods. The attitude has changed in the urban core as opposed to last time we went through this.

I might support something east if there's a ballpark village design with a smaller stadium. No sea of surface parking forever closed off to future development. I dunno, I'm becoming more and more tempted to just leave it where it it.

So, if this happens, I’ll have to listen to my suburbanite relatives explain how the stadium built/saved DT.

How about at the Manual Career & Technical Center location. I'm sure the Scool District would be happy to part with it and It's right by the baseball academy and Negro Leagues Museum.

Maybe a streetcar spur to 18th and Vine in the future?