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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:52 pm
by GRID
It does seem like the Royals had to know that this would be the initial reaction and wanted to get out in front of it. Hopefully they will really start putting some good info out there for the public to get excited about.

It seems like the Royals will be doing this without the Chiefs though. So the extended sales tax may be only for the Royals and the Chiefs are in more of a holding pattern till after the World Cup mode to really do anything major. So it would be hard to tell Jackson County voters that supporting the Royals downtown also means keeping the Chiefs at the TSC.

I don't know if trying to deal with both stadiums at the same time would be too much anyway. Deal with the Royals and then deal with the Chiefs a few years later?

KC really has its hands full right now with all this and despite my concerns, it really is an exciting time for the city.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:49 pm
by Highlander
GRID wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:52 pm It does seem like the Royals had to know that this would be the initial reaction and wanted to get out in front of it. Hopefully they will really start putting some good info out there for the public to get excited about.

It seems like the Royals will be doing this without the Chiefs though. So the extended sales tax may be only for the Royals and the Chiefs are in more of a holding pattern till after the World Cup mode to really do anything major. So it would be hard to tell Jackson County voters that supporting the Royals downtown also means keeping the Chiefs at the TSC.

I don't know if trying to deal with both stadiums at the same time would be too much anyway. Deal with the Royals and then deal with the Chiefs a few years later?

KC really has its hands full right now with all this and despite my concerns, it really is an exciting time for the city.
I think there will be considerably higher opposition to moving the Royal's downtown than there was for KCI. That said, I think the city did a good job educating the voters on the two main issues regarding the new terminal: 1. Who pays for it and 2. The uncompromising nature of the circular terminal arrangements with regards to converting to a modern and comfortable experience. The city got an A for 1 (that message was received loud and clear) and a B for 2 (I still think many are skeptical about not having huge security lines and long walks at the new airport).

This time around, the Royal's management will need to educate on the city on the viability of downtown and address crime, traffic and parking concerns and perhaps more importantly convince people why it's needed particularly if public funding is required. They are two different problems. I think people in this metro simply just do not go downtown or go so rarely that it seems like a formidable black box that they know nothing about.

If I were the Royals, I would point out that the TSC is served by two major highways. Downtown is served by I-35, I-29, I-49 (via Watkins drive), I-70 US 169, Southwest Trafficway and a host of smaller streets and boulevards. The ways in and out are considerably more numerous than TSC. I think people will find that ballparks in the city empty out better than those dependent on one or two major highways. People that rarely go downtown also do not know where to park. It doesn't matter if half the area is covered by lots and garages; it's simply a black box to most. They don't know where the public garages are and what the rules and costs associated with them are. I really don't know myself. I am hoping the Royals would have a plan to make that known and work with all the parking companies downtown currently. I think the TSC arrangement is very reassuring for most people; there is always enough parking and the destination is always visible.

But the biggest issue will be financing. Unlike KCI, a stadium won't be funded by user fees. That will take the hard sell. Extending a tax will be much easier to digest than a new tax but still a hard sell.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:59 pm
by DColeKC
Perhaps the royals utilize the local/county tax and the Chiefs will get some state funding. The state would want to stay out of baseball since we have two teams and what you do for one, the other would expect. With only one nfl team, Missouri legislators would be in deep shit if they let the Chiefs cross the state line.

I don’t know if I’d give up my season tickets but I’m as opposed as possible to Chiefs being in Kansas. Not sure why it’s such a big deal to me but maybe it’s my Missouri pride.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:07 pm
by beautyfromashes
GRID wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:52 pm It seems like the Royals will be doing this without the Chiefs though. So the extended sales tax may be only for the Royals and the Chiefs are in more of a holding pattern till after the World Cup…
If true, a huge mistake.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:30 pm
by Link2
beautyfromashes wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:07 pm
GRID wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:52 pm It seems like the Royals will be doing this without the Chiefs though. So the extended sales tax may be only for the Royals and the Chiefs are in more of a holding pattern till after the World Cup…
If true, a huge mistake.
As far as I know, it's still a joint effort. Royals just happen to be out first in a well-coordinated effort.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:16 pm
by UMKC Roo
Half of these complainers (or more, probably more) are coming from Kansas. They don't care a thing about KCMO and their only concern is what's best for themselves exclusively.

Then there's Jackson County suburbanites -- which I'm sure a good amount do complain, but atleast they respect KCMO the city and there's something to work with there. I think with a proper campaign the JaxCo people can all be sold on this. Again, just bifurcate the KS people and it gets easier.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:18 pm
by KCPowercat
GRID wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:52 pm It does seem like the Royals had to know that this would be the initial reaction and wanted to get out in front of it. Hopefully they will really start putting some good info out there for the public to get excited about.

It seems like the Royals will be doing this without the Chiefs though. So the extended sales tax may be only for the Royals and the Chiefs are in more of a holding pattern till after the World Cup mode to really do anything major. So it would be hard to tell Jackson County voters that supporting the Royals downtown also means keeping the Chiefs at the TSC.

I don't know if trying to deal with both stadiums at the same time would be too much anyway. Deal with the Royals and then deal with the Chiefs a few years later?

KC really has its hands full right now with all this and despite my concerns, it really is an exciting time for the city.
I feel like the JaxCo tax extension will still have a chiefs component. Yeah not a new stadium.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:41 pm
by Highlander
UMKC Roo wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:16 pm Half of these complainers (or more, probably more) are coming from Kansas. They don't care a thing about KCMO and their only concern is what's best for themselves exclusively.

Then there's Jackson County suburbanites -- which I'm sure a good amount do complain, but atleast they respect KCMO the city and there's something to work with there. I think with a proper campaign the JaxCo people can all be sold on this. Again, just bifurcate the KS people and it gets easier.
The bigger complainers I've seen, at least with regards to comments on City Scene are from Jackson County. People from Oak Grove/Grain Valley, Blue Springs, Independence and Lees Summit have the most to lose. TSC is very convenient for them.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:45 am
by aknowledgeableperson
If the Royals are looking at extending the current sales tax for the sports complex remember the current tax 3/8 runs until 2031. Not saying it is impossible but highly unlikely extending the current sales tax to build something to be completed before 2032 when the extended tax would go into effect is feasible. If the current sales tax is creating a surplus the current bonds could be retired early but that would require cooperation between the city, the county, and the Royals. So the big question is is Jackson County willing to work with both the city and the Royals to build a downtown stadium. I would imagine the Chiefs plans for whatever they want to do at TSC will be the determining factor. In a way a downtown Royals stadium is dependent on what the Chiefs are wanting to do at TSC.
Basically it is a giant puzzle trying to put together.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:46 pm
by dukuboy1
Weird that KS folks would not be juiced for a closer location. But I understand, as most KS suburbanites very rarely journey beyond their 10 mile radius from their home. It can be a little of a drive to reach an interstate to get across to another part of the Metro. But I think it’s mostly a knee jerk reaction to what they know to the prospect of the unknown. But if they build s stadium that seats 25-30k it will price out some of the fans most concerned who will watch on TV & visit ballpark less & allow those with a desire & perhaps the disposable income to frequent more. I’m personally pumped for downtown baseball & the event/destination feel of going to a game rather than the feeling of going to a mall that’s showing the game.

The biggest thing I’ll miss is “mini-tailgating”. Have a few drinks in the parking lot & a quick sandwich (or whatever) before walking into a game on a Tue night 😀

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:29 am
by GRID
Highlander wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:41 pm
UMKC Roo wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:16 pm Half of these complainers (or more, probably more) are coming from Kansas. They don't care a thing about KCMO and their only concern is what's best for themselves exclusively.

Then there's Jackson County suburbanites -- which I'm sure a good amount do complain, but atleast they respect KCMO the city and there's something to work with there. I think with a proper campaign the JaxCo people can all be sold on this. Again, just bifurcate the KS people and it gets easier.
The bigger complainers I've seen, at least with regards to comments on City Scene are from Jackson County. People from Oak Grove/Grain Valley, Blue Springs, Independence and Lees Summit have the most to lose. TSC is very convenient for them.
I would agree with this. I also think people in suburban Jackson County are immune to how bad the area around the stadium is because it's not as big of a deal to them. If you live in Lee's Summit or Blue Springs, you have plenty of places near your home you can eat at before or after a game just as easily so there is really no point in having restaurants etc for them. They just like the convenience of the stadiums at the current location. However people in JoCo seem to be more tired of the area around the TSC and people in JoCo seem to think the metro area ends at the stadiums. For some reason they seem clueless that the metro area goes on quite a ways east of the stadiums. The stadiums are closer to Downtown than many outer Jackson County suburban areas.

Having said that, I just spoke to a relative in Blue Springs today. They said that initially it was a shock that the Royals would move Downtown and leave the TSC. But after a little more thought, they are very open to the idea just because there is nothing around the stadium and thought it might be neat and a good change to have a stadium downtown.

So maybe once the initial "shock" wears off people will be more open to the idea. Even people in suburban Jackson County.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:02 am
by UMKC Roo
Ironically the best way to get suburban people to get over the fear of the "urban area" is to make them have to go downtown for the Royals and realize it's not that bad.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:15 am
by normalthings
UMKC Roo wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:02 am Ironically the best way to get suburban people to get over the fear of the "urban area" is to make them have to go downtown for the Royals and realize it's not that bad.
Maybe not. Gameday will be associated with crowds/traffic and trying to find parking.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:25 am
by DColeKC
normalthings wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:15 am
UMKC Roo wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:02 am Ironically the best way to get suburban people to get over the fear of the "urban area" is to make them have to go downtown for the Royals and realize it's not that bad.
Maybe not. Gameday will be associated with crowds/traffic and trying to find parking.
Just like it is now. I don’t know why people think TSC is so convenient. It’s not at all. Granted a parking lot meant to hold cars for 70k and only 15k show up to see a baseball game is going to mean less traffic on the in and out, but it’s not any easier than what it will be downtown.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:03 am
by TheSmokinPun
DColeKC wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:25 am
normalthings wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:15 am
UMKC Roo wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:02 am Ironically the best way to get suburban people to get over the fear of the "urban area" is to make them have to go downtown for the Royals and realize it's not that bad.
Maybe not. Gameday will be associated with crowds/traffic and trying to find parking.
Just like it is now. I don’t know why people think TSC is so convenient. It’s not at all. Granted a parking lot meant to hold cars for 70k and only 15k show up to see a baseball game is going to mean less traffic on the in and out, but it’s not any easier than what it will be downtown.
I've spent an hour trying to get out of TSC for a baseball game that no more than 20k people were at. It drives me crazy that people think it's easy, a failed design from another era.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:17 pm
by aknowledgeableperson
DColeKC wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:25 am
Just like it is now. I don’t know why people think TSC is so convenient.
There are plusses and minuses with both location. Individuals will weigh those factors differently to come to their own conclusion.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:57 pm
by normalthings
TheSmokinPun wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:03 am
DColeKC wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:25 am
normalthings wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:15 am

Maybe not. Gameday will be associated with crowds/traffic and trying to find parking.
Just like it is now. I don’t know why people think TSC is so convenient. It’s not at all. Granted a parking lot meant to hold cars for 70k and only 15k show up to see a baseball game is going to mean less traffic on the in and out, but it’s not any easier than what it will be downtown.
I've spent an hour trying to get out of TSC for a baseball game that no more than 20k people were at. It drives me crazy that people think it's easy, a failed design from another era.
I haven’t been hearing many people say it’s easy to get in/out of TSC as much as they are saying TSC is bad but downtown will be worse. Considering I hardly notice a concert at T-Mobile the average Royals game really wouldn’t impact much. Maybe T-Mobile + Midland + First Friday + Royals at once could get bad

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:38 pm
by DColeKC
https://fox4kc.com/sports/royals/simila ... m=referral

Weird article but it’s in topic. Florida deal failed for more reasons than given and it was adding a district to an existing stadium.

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:29 am
by Cratedigger
DColeKC wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:38 pm https://fox4kc.com/sports/royals/simila ... m=referral

Weird article but it’s in topic. Florida deal failed for more reasons than given and it was adding a district to an existing stadium.
So why else did Lot J (aside from the lazy name) fail?

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:05 am
by DColeKC
Cratedigger wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:29 am
DColeKC wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:38 pm https://fox4kc.com/sports/royals/simila ... m=referral

Weird article but it’s in topic. Florida deal failed for more reasons than given and it was adding a district to an existing stadium.
So why else did Lot J (aside from the lazy name) fail?
Mostly issues with the owner and him not wanting to contribute more. He’s a different level of rich compared to our local owners.

Lot J was just the project working name.