KCRag Forum

It's hard to build infrastructure when you don't know where the teams will be.

The biggest thing we need is regional funding, so if you can fix that go at it.

World Cup was a minimal build bid with very minimal lead time. KC would have to have started building the LRT line before we secured a place the way we do things now.

I tend to think KC has been doing way too much studying and talking and just needs to go ahead and propose stuff. Did we really need another start from near zero study to tell us E/W bet or streetcar should be on Linwood or 31st?

Bringing the stadiums downtown means pre and post game expenditures at local bars and restaurants. Tailgating is not advantageous to the teams nor Jackson County. Converting tailgate supply purchases into downtown KC bar tabs is good for Jackson County rate payers.

Jackson County 717,000
Clay County 256,000
Platte County 110,000
Cass County 110,000

1.2 million people. Can probably do a lot with just the Missouri side. Or even just Jackson County. Maybe once the stadiums get resolved things will start happening.

But they really should be happening along with the stadiums and I don't see that happening at all.

For example, the Chiefs would probably do a lot more at the TSC if they knew the county was going to do major infrastructure upgrades.

And the voters are probably much more likely to support a downtown ballpark if they know there is at least talk of improving transit to downtown.

None of that is happening. There is not even any real long term planning going on (other than the same long term ideas that have been around for decades).

What was the regional plan that KCRTA promised to announce at their annual meeting?

If the stadium ends up in EV would the city convert the old jail into a parking garage?

No way will 12th Street be shut down on game days or even given a road diet. Not with the police HQ there. Not only do they want access, they use 12th to double and triple park. If ball park goes to EV I would like to see 11th as the street to concentrate on. Make it a ped street, interrupted only by the north-south streets and heavily rebrand into the old Petticoat Lane moniker.

moderne wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:50 am No way will 12th Street be shut down on game days or even given a road diet. Not with the police HQ there. Not only do they want access, they use 12th to double and triple park. If ball park goes to EV I would like to see 11th as the street to concentrate on. Make it a ped street, interrupted only by the north-south streets and heavily rebrand into the old Petticoat Lane moniker.

12th is getting a cycle track in 2023 from the West Bottoms to Charlotte.

gfenn11 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:36 pm

moderne wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:50 am No way will 12th Street be shut down on game days or even given a road diet. Not with the police HQ there. Not only do they want access, they use 12th to double and triple park. If ball park goes to EV I would like to see 11th as the street to concentrate on. Make it a ped street, interrupted only by the north-south streets and heavily rebrand into the old Petticoat Lane moniker.

12th is getting a cycle track in 2023 from the West Bottoms to Charlotte.

Was this in the master plan?

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:41 pm

gfenn11 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:36 pm

moderne wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:50 am No way will 12th Street be shut down on game days or even given a road diet. Not with the police HQ there. Not only do they want access, they use 12th to double and triple park. If ball park goes to EV I would like to see 11th as the street to concentrate on. Make it a ped street, interrupted only by the north-south streets and heavily rebrand into the old Petticoat Lane moniker.

12th is getting a cycle track in 2023 from the West Bottoms to Charlotte.

Was this in the master plan?

I seem to only remember it going from Baltimore to Oak, but it is now listed on the KCMO bike plan website.

moderne wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:50 am No way will 12th Street be shut down on game days or even given a road diet. Not with the police HQ there. Not only do they want access, they use 12th to double and triple park. If ball park goes to EV I would like to see 11th as the street to concentrate on. Make it a ped street, interrupted only by the north-south streets and heavily rebrand into the old Petticoat Lane moniker.

11th Street is just as important as 12th Street. 11th gives access to Municipal Courts plus as exits from I-70.

I hope the Royals money includes money for the streetscape between P&L and the stadium. 10th-12th st. And importantly also on Cherry. If that can be solved then it'll make waiting on any towers or development to be build much easier.

I trust the Royals on this that they're gonna do it right. John Sherman has repeatedly shown an interest in urbanism, boosting downtown & he thinks big. He also wants to move as fast as he can. In my opinion, a true dud owner would be waiting to the end of the lease in 2031 to do anything.

I continue to have big expectations for this project and trust that Sherman will try to go as big as possible. Very lucky this isn't led by the Glass family -- otherwise it would be as bad as some are expecting.

^ I hope you are right. Sherman seems like a really good guy and somebody that really just wants what is best for KC. It's just too bad he is now taking so much shit from the public via social media etc.

I know people on here say social media doesn't matter, but no matter where I look it's like 80% against a new stadium right now and this is even on pro urban KCMO platforms like Reddit and CitySceneKC. It's much worse than KCI ever was.

If people don't think this is going to be a major uphill battle to convince the public that a new downtown stadium is better than a renovated or even a new stadium at the TSC, then this could be a fail from the start.

You have to be realistic. The vast majority of people are not in favor of this yet. Hopefully Sherman can be the person that can change people's minds.

And as I mentioned before. There has to be some other investments in addition to the ballpark and village. Namely better transit and downtown highway infrastructure. You are going to need more than a single tram on Main Street which will need some modifications itself for it to actually function for MLB game volumes and the traffic that the trams will be mixed up in.

This is why something should come together quickly in Jackson County using the World Cup as another reason to at least get the ball rolling. It's a lot of money to build two new stadium, and better transit. But KC has not spent much on this type of stuff over the decades. It's time.

It's natural for people to be skeptical at this point. There is no plan out there for people to absorb. It takes some effort and understanding of what this could be to get on board and few went to do that. Much easier to post "dumb idea" at this point and move on

It will be interesting how much ancillary with can be done like you mention grid. That's probably the biggest question and doubt I have at this point.

I don't think it is 80% opposed to a Downtown stadium, but that number is probably accurate for those against public funding for a stadium. Sure, there are those that oppose any stadium Downtown, but I mostly see opposition to tax payer support. Unfortunately, it the two seem inextricably linked.

They had to know this was going to get a negative reaction at first which is likely the reason they did it. Issue press release, collect all the feedback and prepare for your campaign to sell it to the public. I can’t imagine a new stadium partially tax payer funded has ever been announced in this country without a major amount of pushback. Some peoples brains are so small they say things like, “we still have homeless people and I don’t support a stadium until we fix that”, which just shows their ignorance. Let’s halt ALL new tax subsidized projects until we get that homeless problem fixed. That’ll result in no new projects for well…. Ever.

Suburban Jackson County people won’t get on board until it’s connected to the Chiefs and they have already threatened to move to Kansas. They’ll rightfully reason that it’s better to vote for a Royals DT stadium if it means they keep the Chiefs where they are.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:28 am They had to know this was going to get a negative reaction at first which is likely the reason they did it. Issue press release, collect all the feedback and prepare for your campaign to sell it to the public.

If there's one word I would use to describe Sherman, it is methodical.

The approach they are taking is trying to be open with the public about their plans in a way that lets people get used to the idea of change.

A year ago when they first floated the idea of leaving Kauffman, there was some pushback. Now the pushback seems more around the public financing and less about the leaving Kauffman. I think the team needs to do a better job of selling the benefits of this downtown ballpark village. Which will come.

This letter was more about saying that the team will be leaving Kauffman than about where their next location will be.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:28 am They had to know this was going to get a negative reaction at first which is likely the reason they did it. Issue press release, collect all the feedback and prepare for your campaign to sell it to the public.

Exactly. Put it out there, gather the common negative responses, build up your pitch using those points.

I can’t imagine a new stadium partially tax payer funded has ever been announced in this country without a major amount of pushback.

I was thinking this earlier today. I obviously don't scour every city's sites when they announce anything but I assume it's almost always outrage on comment sections.

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:07 am

DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:28 am They had to know this was going to get a negative reaction at first which is likely the reason they did it. Issue press release, collect all the feedback and prepare for your campaign to sell it to the public.

If there's one word I would use to describe Sherman, it is methodical.

The approach they are taking is trying to be open with the public about their plans in a way that lets people get used to the idea of change.

A year ago when they first floated the idea of leaving Kauffman, there was some pushback. Now the pushback seems more around the public financing and less about the leaving Kauffman. I think the team needs to do a better job of selling the benefits of this downtown ballpark village. Which will come.

This letter was more about saying that the team will be leaving Kauffman than about where their next location will be.

Agreed and accurate description of Sherman. They have already tried to get in front of financing a bit saying no MORE is coming from jax. Now does that include extension of the tax, most likely, but that will for sure be a combo pitch with the Chiefs, that's in the bag.

It does seem like the Royals had to know that this would be the initial reaction and wanted to get out in front of it. Hopefully they will really start putting some good info out there for the public to get excited about.

It seems like the Royals will be doing this without the Chiefs though. So the extended sales tax may be only for the Royals and the Chiefs are in more of a holding pattern till after the World Cup mode to really do anything major. So it would be hard to tell Jackson County voters that supporting the Royals downtown also means keeping the Chiefs at the TSC.

I don't know if trying to deal with both stadiums at the same time would be too much anyway. Deal with the Royals and then deal with the Chiefs a few years later?

KC really has its hands full right now with all this and despite my concerns, it really is an exciting time for the city.