KCRag Forum

I've heard the "land banked for the Royals" theory as well and while it's partly true I suspect a lot would hold back development in EV even if the Royals announced another stadium site.

a stadium would be one of the only justifiable reasonings behind demolition of the legendary 12th Street and everything along her side streets. a bunch of 5 over 1's won't cut it for an area that made the city what it was in the 1920's.

daGOAT wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:20 pm a stadium would be one of the only justifiable reasonings behind demolition of the legendary 12th Street and everything along her side streets. a bunch of 5 over 1's won't cut it for an area that made the city what it was in the 1920's.

I don’t disagree with you at all but this made me think of something. Why do we consider certain architecturally insignificant older buildings or areas historical? In 2050 if Kansas City live in PNL is no longer serving its purpose and can be demolished for something better for downtown, will anyone fight to save it? Some historical KC things have happened there but is that enough reason to save a place?

Certain buildings that played a part in downtown KC’s story 100 years ago. Do they deserve to stay even if it means a worse impact on the area?

What is the purpose of Live at P&L? Generic drinking and gathering place. Can't see any historical anything happening there. And how many residence have the 2 light buildings brought downtown? No improvement in street activity. Do they just hang out in their apartments playing video games and never go out?

KCKev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:54 pm What is the purpose of Live at P&L? Generic drinking and gathering place. Can't see any historical anything happening there. And how many residence have the 2 light buildings brought downtown? No improvement in street activity. Do they just hang out in their apartments playing video games and never go out?

its 400 people in a downtown building to hold hundreds of thousands. Little breeze in a big ocean

KCKev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:54 pm What is the purpose of Live at P&L? Generic drinking and gathering place. Can't see any historical anything happening there. And how many residence have the 2 light buildings brought downtown? No improvement in street activity. Do they just hang out in their apartments playing video games and never go out?

Well you took this to a very negative place…. Historical things in downtown KC’s history have already happened there. We are getting the World Cup and kc live has much to do with that. There are dozens of other things and moments that have happened at that generic drinking and gathering place as you so dowdily described it. The light buildings were the first new residential towers in almost 50 years downtown.

The point wasn’t to give you an opportunity to talk shit, I was seriously wondering what sets the bar of historical significance. “Legendary 12th” street is vague, what historical impact or part did these non-living objects play in the 1920’s? Maybe they were the generic drinking and gathering spot frequented by mobsters and influential people of the time?


Oh and the light buildings have brought 450 new to KC residents. No improvement to street activity? Would love to hear your source on that.

KCKev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:54 pm What is the purpose of Live at P&L? Generic drinking and gathering place. Can't see any historical anything happening there.

DCole mentioned this but I just want to agree: Watching big live events in that space is a blast and I'm glad KC has a spot like that. The live views/photos of the space during those events gets shared nationally and helps build a positive reputation for the city.

Not sure what point KCKev was trying to make. I know people love to bag on P&L District because it had it's issues covering tax payments or with incentives or whatever. I'm not sure where things stand now if it is worse or better. Point is people need to fucking get it over it. Excuse my harsh language but god damn people, let it go. Did the project work out 100% as proposed and supposed to work? No it did not, but even if it was 90% delivered that is still an A grade. Hell, how many other developments don't meet full potential but still work out ok? I'm guessing quite a few. To look at it through such a pinpoint microscope you miss out on all of the other benefits and positive things the district has brought to the area. Admit it or not but it has brought people downtown from all over the metro. It is used properly for bigger watch parties, etc. and serves as a wonderful PR backdrop for sporting events and showing civic pride. These images have made an impact in sharing the brand of KC with the rest of the world. The Sprint Center (TMobile), P&L and the Light building all served as a major catalyst to revitalize downtown and spur the development we have seen in the last 15yrs. If you can't comprehend that into big picture strategic thinking, then your worldview will most likely always remain myopic and that is fine. People are entitled to their opinions, but also be prepared to have your opinions be challenged and potentially disproved with things like facts & truths.

Wow, didn't intend on setting everyone off. Historic was brought up and I was just curious as to the Kc Live P&L district fitting into this reference. The new builds downtown are what the new generation has to become historic in the future. Times change and maybe metel studs and sheetrock can be historic.

Will it be historic? Maybe.

A lot of 70s and 80s stuff is at high risk of being torn down pretty much everywhere because the buildings are just reaching that stage where things are worn out. Do you invest in refurbishment, or just scrap and turn it into something new? A lot of things this age aren’t seen right now as “historic”. So when we bemoan what they did in the 60s clearing out downtowns, they probably saw it more as worn out old buildings instead of historic fabric. Granted, turning things into surface lots is also a crap plan. And not nearly every building will be historic either.

I see P&L being more like Westport where things morph

KCKev wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:26 pm Wow, didn't intend on setting everyone off. Historic was brought up and I was just curious as to the Kc Live P&L district fitting into this reference. The new builds downtown are what the new generation has to become historic in the future. Times change and maybe metel studs and sheetrock can be historic.

So your issue is with modern building materials? Your post to my honest curiosity was to bash my reference. It’s all good I just didn’t understand your take.

I’m not a save a building just because it’s old type of person. Who built it, what happened there, what impact positive or negative did it play and on and on. Lots of reasons to want to preserve buildings but we can’t keep old things just for nostalgia.

Old buildings being torn down typically are replaced with something worse. Not just material, it could be the modern dumb codes of the time that old building didn't have to abide by. Or it's the new owner wants more parking. It's almost always worse.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:31 am Old buildings being torn down typically are replaced with something worse. Not just material, it could be the modern dumb codes of the time that old building didn't have to abide by. Or it's the new owner wants more parking. It's almost always worse.

While most code changes in the modern age are arbitrary, the code differences between say 1910 and today nearly all encompass occupant safety. I agree government bureaucracy makes things more difficult to accomplish, but building codes are pretty cut and dry to keep people alive and in a standing building

I was referring to design codes not life and safety codes of how the internal building operates.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 7:12 am I was referring to design codes not life and safety codes of how the internal building operates.

Ah, my bad, yeah you’re not incorrect, design codes are horrendous. Carry on

KC Biz Journal is reporting that the South Loop cap is playing a role in where the Royals may go.

That makes sense because shortly after they announced the Cap is when we first started hearing about the E Crossroads location.

He also teased that the Kansas City Current's start on its riverfront stadium might not be the metro's only stadium announcement on the horizon and noted that projects like the South Loop Link could help guide decisions as to where such assets are placed.

As the Kansas City Royals continue to explore a possible new downtown ballpark, one prospective site highlighted by some stakeholders in the process — in the East Crossroads, just east of The Kansas City Star's former offices — would sit just blocks from the South Loop Link.

The Royals are in complete disarray. There was talk when a DT stadium was mentioned that they might leave TSC early. I wouldn’t be surprised if they actually didn’t have to stay past their lease just because they are not moving…AT ALL.

Movement will happen on this after Nov 8 elections. Read they want to see who is on the County legislature after elections, mostly FW. If he is re-elected they'll proceed with April vote is my guess.

FW will probaly get re-elected so we will hopefully get the go ahead then. Definitely do not propose any kind of tax increase before elections. April makes sense, help get the team involved with the city and underscore the importance of Royals to the community and impact a DT stadium redevelopment could have. As I've stated earlier, it seems like a better sell to extend or modestly increase the existing sales tax. It's definitely a more reasonable ask since people are used to it.

From what I've heard, FW is not pro-downtown baseball so you're better off voting for Galvin in that regard