Downtown Baseball Stadium

[earthling]

Royals Review did a survey this week of 726 responses asking about the downtown stadium. Keep in mind these are hardcore Royals fans, not the general public.

Stay- 50.7%
Move- 33.7%
Unsure- 15.6%

This was actually a lot better than I thought. I was expecting amongst the hardcore fans for it to be like 15-20%. I think if even the hardcore fans are already at 1/3rd with room to grow, then they can get the support they need over time with the overall public.

They need another survey that asks same question with a tax added. Imagine favoritism would slide. Need to find a way to do this with no additional taxes (outside higher ticket prices) as it would probably be disastrous if brought to a vote.

TIF/Bonds with an extended project so big that the stadium is just a portion of it probably would have a better chance (ie: stadium fused into highrises at each corner and surrounded with other purposes). Don't bother with a standalone stadium that is brought to public vote. KC may end up losing Royals to another market if it doesn't pass.

[DaveKCMO]

I'm sure the teams have probably already collected -- or plan to collect -- a valid survey that would indicate how hard the "no" opinion is. Would it change if they saw a rendering or after the funding plan is public? As a "unsure" person, I want to see the funding plan before I voice any support for moving downtown.

I'm also sure that if they get valid survey data, they will launch a persuasion/education campaign to convert the unsure and turn out the yes. Many campaigns don't spend a lot of resources on persuading people who are opposed.

[earthling]

^In these uncertain times and for the next several years, it doesn't seem likely it could pass if higher taxes involved. If this can be managed with private funding (the broader the project, the more doable) and TIF/Bonds (that don't require a public vote), the surveys don't really matter. If this is brought to public vote and doesn't pass... well is it worth potentially losing Royals to another market? Better to stay where it is otherwise.

[AlkaliAxel]

Royals Review did a survey this week of 726 responses asking about the downtown stadium. Keep in mind these are hardcore Royals fans, not the general public.

Stay- 50.7%
Move- 33.7%
Unsure- 15.6%

This was actually a lot better than I thought. I was expecting amongst the hardcore fans for it to be like 15-20%. I think if even the hardcore fans are already at 1/3rd with room to grow, then they can get the support they need over time with the overall public.

They need another survey that asks same question with a tax added. Imagine favoritism would slide. Need to find a way to do this with no additional taxes (outside higher ticket prices) as it would probably be disastrous if brought to a vote.

TIF/Bonds with an extended project so big that the stadium is just a portion of it probably would have a better chance (ie: stadium fused into highrises at each corner and surrounded with other purposes). Don't bother with a standalone stadium that is brought to public vote. KC may end up losing Royals to another market if it doesn't pass.

For the record, the next question in the sample asked “If you voted No, explain why” and taxes was one of the boxes you could click.

[Cratedigger]

TIF/Bonds with an extended project so big that the stadium is just a portion of it probably would have a better chance (ie: stadium fused into highrises at each corner and surrounded with other purposes). Don't bother with a standalone stadium that is brought to public vote. KC may end up losing Royals to another market if it doesn't pass.

From everything I’ve heard this is the plan. Will be more than just a stadium.

I don’t know if we’re in danger of losing the Royals though… Sherman made a point of focusing on a local group of investors. The team would be sold before they leave the KC metro.

However, crossing the state line to KS…? That’s more realistic.

[normalthings]

TIF/Bonds with an extended project so big that the stadium is just a portion of it probably would have a better chance (ie: stadium fused into highrises at each corner and surrounded with other purposes). Don't bother with a standalone stadium that is brought to public vote. KC may end up losing Royals to another market if it doesn't pass.

From everything I’ve heard this is the plan. Will be more than just a stadium.

I don’t know if we’re in danger of losing the Royals though… Sherman made a point of focusing on a local group of investors. The team would be sold before they leave the KC metro.

However, crossing the state line to KS…? That’s more realistic.

Other cities want a team so it could still be a good time to sell.

[AlkaliAxel]

I will say this about selling- if that ever actually happened, you'd get NBA/NHL here in about 2 weeks. It's way too good and big of a sports market for just the Chiefs.

[WoodDraw]

I will say this about selling- if that ever actually happened, you'd get NBA/NHL here in about 2 weeks. It's way too good and big of a sports market for just the Chiefs.

And it would move too. We need Local ownership

[AlkaliAxel]

There's about a good of chance of the Royals moving as there is that a stadium will be built at 18th and Vine

But yeah at the end of the day there’s no way the Royals move.

There are like 3-4 other MLB teams that are far more likely to move (Tampa, Oakland, Miami, Pittsburgh) before the Royals do and even they haven’t been able to yet. Although they may soon.

[SilentSpades24]

So today the MLB owners have continued the MLB Lockout and will be canceling games, all because they want a bigger share of the money and don't want to properly compensate players.

Please, please remember this moment when the Royals inevitably come asking for incentives for a new stadium. Remember and tell them no, build it themselves.

(I'm a bit emotional rn, but still).

[normalthings]

So today the MLB owners have continued the MLB Lockout and will be canceling games, all because they want a bigger share of the money and don't want to properly compensate players.

Please, please remember this moment when the Royals inevitably come asking for incentives for a new stadium. Remember and tell them no, build it themselves.

(I'm a bit emotional rn, but still).

As a "few times a year" visitor the stadium, tell me how players aren't well compensated already.

[WoodDraw]

So today the MLB owners have continued the MLB Lockout and will be canceling games, all because they want a bigger share of the money and don't want to properly compensate players.

Please, please remember this moment when the Royals inevitably come asking for incentives for a new stadium. Remember and tell them no, build it themselves.

(I'm a bit emotional rn, but still).

As a "few times a year" visitor the stadium, tell me how players aren't well compensated already.

Player salaries actually aren’t going up, in many cases decreasing. The owners are also abusing service time requirements to avoid going into arbitration with players and then delaying their free agency

A lot of teams now just try to tank and pay as little as money as possible to get high draft picks for years in a row until they can make the playoffs with a cheap team. The owners want to expand the playoffs again so more teams make so they get the post season money with no investment in the team.

This is really all on the owners. I haven’t read anything supportive of their position.

[phuqueue]

The owners also aren't negotiating in good faith at all. Jeff Passan laid it out pretty well yesterday. The league didn't even make an offer to the union until six weeks into the lockout. Last week the union proposed a serious deal and the league countered with a joke of an offer that was worse than the previous CBA. This is not the latest into spring that labor issues have lasted before, but the league has begun unnecessarily canceling games to try to strongarm the union. Inane takes about players being compensated well enough already neglect that MLB is a $10 billion business and the money that doesn't go to the players goes to the owners -- all of whom are already billionaires from their other businesses. The people actually generating that revenue deserve their fair share of it, not the parasites with nothing to offer but a checkbook, who will remain obscenely wealthy regardless of what their take is.

[WoodDraw]

It’s worth noting that the owners are trying to decrease their investment, and have been for some time. Having local cities pay for the infrastructure, run everything through drafts so they don’t have to pay for talent.

The players fucked up a lot awhile ago by giving into a lot of this, expecting at the major league level they'd continue to share in the growing revenue. Instead the owners have done the opposite.

It's a pretty bad situation.

[AlkaliAxel]

Went to the Big 12 tournament this week a couple times and I just had to share one thing I observed:

1. People absolutely do spend more money in the surrounding venues before & after the game.

I know there is this big narrative out there "downtown stadiums don't boost anything in the city". From what I saw, tons of people were leaving restaurants before the game to then head to the arena. And then even more after the game were heading out to restaurants or bars as well.

Another key: when people were leaving arena & walking across to the streetcar, they would see stores and peel off into them. I think the longer walks to their car or streetcars caused people to see a place and go there.

2. It was some of the most energy I've seen downtown in a while. And it was all because of a sports game being downtown. Before and after the game for a good while, everywhere was still pretty crowded. A big part of this also is how great of a location T-Mobile center is to the rest of downtown. I even overheard someone say in the arena "if they got an NBA team here full time I'd move down here"

This just was a 19k seat basketball arena in *cold* weather. Imagine what a 35k seat baseball stadium could do 81+ nights a year in the summer time! And I know most of you already know this stuff, but I'm just reiterating...it will be really awesome & good for downtown economy. I can't believe there's actually people who don't think it helps a downtowns economy.

[im2kull]

This just was a 19k seat basketball arena in *cold* weather. Imagine what a 35k seat baseball stadium could do 81+ nights a year in the summer time! And I know most of you already know this stuff, but I'm just reiterating...it will be really awesome & good for downtown economy. I can't believe there's actually people who don't think it helps a downtowns economy.

The problem is that these 4-9 square block monstrosities sit completely empty and vacant the other 280 days a year. Zero benefit. No public use. It doesn't matter how big an impact they have on game day if that is cut down to an average economic benefit that's less than what those city blocks would otherwise generate. That's without even mentioning the fact that they're built on the backs of taxpayers, and aren't even paid for by the time they're demolished. That loss is unacceptable.

[daGOAT]

Went to the Big 12 tournament this week a couple times and I just had to share one thing I observed:

1. People absolutely do spend more money in the surrounding venues before & after the game.

I know there is this big narrative out there "downtown stadiums don't boost anything in the city". From what I saw, tons of people were leaving restaurants before the game to then head to the arena. And then even more after the game were heading out to restaurants or bars as well.

Another key: when people were leaving arena & walking across to the streetcar, they would see stores and peel off into them. I think the longer walks to their car or streetcars caused people to see a place and go there.

2. It was some of the most energy I've seen downtown in a while. And it was all because of a sports game being downtown. Before and after the game for a good while, everywhere was still pretty crowded. A big part of this also is how great of a location T-Mobile center is to the rest of downtown. I even overheard someone say in the arena "if they got an NBA team here full time I'd move down here"

This just was a 19k seat basketball arena in *cold* weather. Imagine what a 35k seat baseball stadium could do 81+ nights a year in the summer time! And I know most of you already know this stuff, but I'm just reiterating...it will be really awesome & good for downtown economy. I can't believe there's actually people who don't think it helps a downtowns economy.

I used to be a line cook at Bristol and I was a server at the Ice House, I served at a couple spots in the Crossroads as well. March was always a great month for me and my co workers. Except when I was a cook cuz we would get slammed for a third of the pay most nights, that kinda sucked.

[AlkaliAxel]

I used to be a line cook at Bristol and I was a server at the Ice House, I served at a couple spots in the Crossroads as well. March was always a great month for me and my co workers. Except when I was a cook cuz we would get slammed for a third of the pay most nights, that kinda sucked.

Imagine Royals, NBA/NHL, Sporting KC & Big 12 tournament all bringing in people downtown on sports alone

[daGOAT]

I used to be a line cook at Bristol and I was a server at the Ice House, I served at a couple spots in the Crossroads as well. March was always a great month for me and my co workers. Except when I was a cook cuz we would get slammed for a third of the pay most nights, that kinda sucked.

Imagine Royals, NBA/NHL, Sporting KC & Big 12 tournament all bringing in people downtown on sports alone

It would be more consistent. I think people would be really excited for an NBA team, me included, but if the NHL came I dont think I know a single person who would go to a game.

[AlkaliAxel]

Finally some new comments being made from Sherman on the downtown stadium update:

Sherman: "These are really valuable assets for a community. So why shouldn’t we want to optimize the value of this asset on behalf of our community? ... I look at this as a public-private partnership, and we’ll be big investors in that partnership."

https://twitter.com/anne__rogers/status ... 63680?s=21