Downtown ballpark and condos

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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shinatoo
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by shinatoo »

flyingember wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 4:34 pm
shinatoo wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 1:25 pm
earthling wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 7:12 am
And therefore should stadium just stay where it is unless along streetcar line? At least if along streetcar there are 10s of thousands of existing parking along it, especially down to Plaza.
Don't see any point in building a streetcar out to TSC if Kauffman is moving. If it is moving then it should absolutely be within walking distance of the streetcar.
Wouldn't build a streetcar to the stadium, you would build commuter rail down Linwood to the Rock Island line to Lee's Summit that just happens to go by a football stadium
No I wouldn't. Not unless Raytown and LS are paying for it.
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normalthings
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by normalthings »

FangKC wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:19 pm
earthling wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:19 am
The actual stadium site leans more to what I've been talking about. Fusing buildings into the stadium. Check out how it appears from street level. I was thinking something more grand than this with taller buildings, broader functions fused into stadium but this is the kind of approach that would prevent stadium from becoming a stand alone island - whether the outer ring buildings happen in this manner or not. Much better urbane approach than other renderings out there but can KC really pull this off w/out a lot of parking garages nearby/underneath as it's not quite close enough to streetcar line.
I worry about fusing buildings to the stadium itself--especially taller buildings. Stadiums tend to get torn down at some point. Fusing buildings to that stadium would mean tearing down the buildings as well. That seems unnecessary since the life cycle of a building should be much longer. I have no problem building taller buildings adjacent to the stadium though, and ringing the base with retail frontages.
KC keeps her infrastructure far longer than the average city. A 50 year life span for the next stadium should be expected

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by earthling »

^And if a new stadium is built after 50 years it shouldn't be too difficult to retrofit this into a nice urban park or something else with public use. The architects can factor that the stands may not exist forever and think forward about a potential retrofit in distant future. And who knows what more advanced reconstruction techniques will exist by then as well.

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by flyingember »

shinatoo wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:34 pm
flyingember wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 4:34 pm
shinatoo wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 1:25 pm


Don't see any point in building a streetcar out to TSC if Kauffman is moving. If it is moving then it should absolutely be within walking distance of the streetcar.
Wouldn't build a streetcar to the stadium, you would build commuter rail down Linwood to the Rock Island line to Lee's Summit that just happens to go by a football stadium
No I wouldn't. Not unless Raytown and LS are paying for it.
So in other words, a regional system with regional funding is needed and not just an urban core transit system serving a few hot button locations.

I would agree.

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normalthings
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by normalthings »

18th Vine or Bust.

You don't need to touch the High School to build a stadium. @flyingember. Does not require a super block to be created, unlike east village.



I wonder if you could set up a special assessment district around a stadium that taxes per parking space.

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by Goonies »

Why not the area east of the arena? It's literally nothing but parking lots and homeless.

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normalthings
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by normalthings »

Goonies wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:32 am
Why not the area east of the arena? It's literally nothing but parking lots and homeless.
What

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by Goonies »

normalthings wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:00 am
Goonies wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:32 am
Why not the area east of the arena? It's literally nothing but parking lots and homeless.
What
I dont know what the name of the area is but it's over by the AT&T building it's literally parking lots for blocks and the only other thing I see besides concrete is homeless folks.

Ah East Village. Perfect spot.

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by AlkaliAxel »

normalthings wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:34 pm
18th Vine or Bust.

You don't need to touch the High School to build a stadium. @flyingember. Does not require a super block to be created, unlike east village.



I wonder if you could set up a special assessment district around a stadium that taxes per parking space.
Then bust. You have to let that area fix itself first, not force it to get better by putting the stadium there. The numerous highways are the issue. Don't be like STL and have a ballpark in an area where nobody wants to be so it ends up dead. Besides, Royals already have said they don't want to be an economic engine, they want to be a part of growth...which would make sense for downtown loop area then.

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by flyingember »

normalthings wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:34 pm
18th Vine or Bust.

You don't need to touch the High School to build a stadium. @flyingember. Does not require a super block to be created, unlike east village.



I wonder if you could set up a special assessment district around a stadium that taxes per parking space.
You can say this all you want, math doesn't lie.

The East Village 5 block site is 830x800
The ATA site (without the high school being partially destroyed) is 790x690. The N-S 800 foot mark is most of the way through one high school building

Most stadium mockups have used most of an 800x800 space (640k sq ft footprint)

The current stadium is approx 915x740. (677k sq ft footprint)

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

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Sounds like irregardless a downtown stadium would need to built up high with bleachers and have less seating than the K to fit in?

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normalthings
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by normalthings »

flyingember wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:28 am
normalthings wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:34 pm
18th Vine or Bust.

You don't need to touch the High School to build a stadium. @flyingember. Does not require a super block to be created, unlike east village.



I wonder if you could set up a special assessment district around a stadium that taxes per parking space.
You can say this all you want, math doesn't lie.

The East Village 5 block site is 830x800
The ATA site (without the high school being partially destroyed) is 790x690. The N-S 800 foot mark is most of the way through one high school building

Most stadium mockups have used most of an 800x800 space (640k sq ft footprint)

The current stadium is approx 915x740. (677k sq ft footprint)
What prevents you from just buying the FEC and Catholic parcels and moving it ~slightly over?.

Cardinals is around 800 by 700 which fits well on that site

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normalthings
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by normalthings »

AlkaliAxel wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:59 am
Sounds like irregardless a downtown stadium would need to built up high with bleachers and have less seating than the K to fit in?
K is way overbuilt for today’s demand

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by AlkaliAxel »

normalthings wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:19 am
AlkaliAxel wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:59 am
Sounds like irregardless a downtown stadium would need to built up high with bleachers and have less seating than the K to fit in?
K is way overbuilt for today’s demand
I wonder if the new ballpark would finally let us have some real outfield seating like most parks do. Would be cool to have that as an option.

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by flyingember »

normalthings wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:19 am
AlkaliAxel wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:59 am
Sounds like irregardless a downtown stadium would need to built up high with bleachers and have less seating than the K to fit in?
K is way overbuilt for today’s demand
We have the fourth smallest MLB park by seating. The smallest is > 90% our size

Expecting dramatically smaller is unrealistic

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by flyingember »

normalthings wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:16 am
What prevents you from just buying the FEC and Catholic parcels and moving it ~slightly over?.

Cardinals is around 800 by 700 which fits well on that site
Would you want to be the city council that recommends coming into a minority neighborhood and destroying a black congregation's church for a baseball stadium when there's other sites available?

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normalthings
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by normalthings »

flyingember wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:13 am
normalthings wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:16 am
What prevents you from just buying the FEC and Catholic parcels and moving it ~slightly over?.

Cardinals is around 800 by 700 which fits well on that site
Would you want to be the city council that recommends coming into a minority neighborhood and destroying a black congregation's church for a baseball stadium when there's other sites available?
if the stadium goes downtown, it will go to 18 Vine. It is where elected officials want it to go if anywhere downtown.

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by flyingember »

normalthings wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:18 am

if the stadium goes downtown, it will go to 18 Vine. It is where elected officials want it to go if anywhere downtown.
Then where is the ATA moving to?

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by AlkaliAxel »

normalthings wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:18 am
flyingember wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:13 am
normalthings wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:16 am
What prevents you from just buying the FEC and Catholic parcels and moving it ~slightly over?.

Cardinals is around 800 by 700 which fits well on that site
Would you want to be the city council that recommends coming into a minority neighborhood and destroying a black congregation's church for a baseball stadium when there's other sites available?
if the stadium goes downtown, it will go to 18 Vine. It is where elected officials want it to go if anywhere downtown.
I would heavily disagree with that it’s either going to 18th and Vine or nowhere. They’d make a considerable higher amount of money at East Village, especially with the special tax status. Also the politicians don’t matter here. They’re not in a position to tell the team where to go if they want it downtown, beggars can’t be choosers.

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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Also it may be the biggest buzzkill in modern downtown development history to get that close to “you can go to P&L before the game, walk to the game, and then take the streetcar home” all the way to “yeah we moved the stadium and you still can’t even go to the entertainment before the game or get to the streetcar”

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