Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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GRID
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by GRID »

kboish wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:35 pm You are pretty much describing the KCATA property along 18th street (Which is what was highlighted in the previous posts). Its not actually at 18th and Vine, but on the edge. Its also not actually in the Xroads, but just on the edge. It is a dead spot between two districts next to a highway and is surrounded by light industrial.
Yeah, that would probably work well I guess if they can get the land from the KCATA.

PS, I would avoid involving JoCo in any sort of stadium deal. That would be nothing but a shit show. Jackson County alone has like 700k people. Add in Clay and Platte and you have plenty of people to create a regional funding source.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by earthling »

I don't see JoCo happening either but personally wouldn't support a new stadium with just over half of metro contributing. Maybe if doubling ticket prices for none MO residents, which is also a risky move in the age of big TVs and home theater, especially in a winter city.

Another possibility is along Riverfront/casino stretch if streetcar runs there. Can use large public garages at Paseo Bridge exit for games and daily use into downtown via streetcar, keeping cars out of downtown daily. E Loop/Indep Ave would be my choice though for best of all balances (existing density) - if it can get streetcar. Otherwise wherever streetcar going E justified w/out stadium, probably good candidate for stadium near freeway exits.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by beautyfromashes »

I just don’t see the justification for EW streetcar at any of the places mentioned and if the stadium isn’t going to be on a streetcar line, it might as well stay where it is. The whole point is to connect it with existing entertainment infrastructure and make using mass transit to get to the game a reality.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by earthling »

The riverfront line to casino seems to be highest probability of happening. So stadium could work along the line. Maybe even a stadium/casino? Where the casino has views of the field, hotel too? Maybe lame but possibly most doable. And garages at Paseo for games could be used for daily downtown P&R, allowing downtown lots to be developed w/out need for much if any parking.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by mgsports »

Shawnee Mission Parkway where KMART use to be becausevnear I-35 or some where in Mission and can be called Mission Royals because had Mission Reds before. Also Street Car all the way to Shawnee Mission Parkway.
Last edited by mgsports on Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by kboish »

GRID wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:50 pm
kboish wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:35 pm You are pretty much describing the KCATA property along 18th street (Which is what was highlighted in the previous posts). Its not actually at 18th and Vine, but on the edge. Its also not actually in the Xroads, but just on the edge. It is a dead spot between two districts next to a highway and is surrounded by light industrial.
Yeah, that would probably work well I guess if they can get the land from the KCATA.

PS, I would avoid involving JoCo in any sort of stadium deal. That would be nothing but a shit show. Jackson County alone has like 700k people. Add in Clay and Platte and you have plenty of people to create a regional funding source.
It’s for sale. Right now.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by Highlander »

earthling wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:56 pm The riverfront line to casino seems to be highest probability of happening. So stadium could work along the line. Maybe even a stadium/casino? Where the casino has views of the field, hotel too? Maybe lame but possibly most doable. And garages at Paseo for games could be used for daily downtown P&R, allowing downtown lots to be developed w/out need for much if any parking.
I thought about the riverfront but is there enough room? A streetcar connection would be a must to keep it from becoming another isolated car-centric stadium albeit much closer to downtown. Unlike TSC, I think a stadium on the riverfront would actually do something for the surrounding area which already has a little momentum. With the streetcar connection, park downtown, get something to eat and take the streetcar to the game. I could do that.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by beautyfromashes »

People keep talking about the space needed for a stadium. I think the era of larger stadiums is over. We don’t need a 40,000 seat capacity like used to be. We probably could actually get by with under 30 with a way to add bleacher capacity for playoffs. Design something in a smaller frontprint that fits well its surroundings and fill it up.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:47 pm People keep talking about the space needed for a stadium. I think the era of larger stadiums is over. We don’t need a 40,000 seat capacity like used to be. We probably could actually get by with under 30 with a way to add bleacher capacity for playoffs. Design something in a smaller frontprint that fits well its surroundings and fill it up.
The median team (Minnesota) has had an average attendance of 28,000 this year. The Royals averaged 18,000 in 2019. I would expect higher attendance at a more centrally located and/or urban location but nothing more than 30K for the average game.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by TheLastGentleman »

What about Harlem? Face it towards the river and skyline, extend the Town of Kansas bridge over the river, add better connections to NKC.....
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by normalthings »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:32 pm What about Harlem? Face it towards the river and skyline, extend the Town of Kansas bridge over the river, add better connections to NKC.....
Why even move it downtown then? It would be disconnected from downtown/NKC, highways, entertainment districts, and redevelopable areas.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by mgsports »

Woodlands property because Race Track and Anerican Royal not their anymore? Liberty next to where Shell Gas Station that hasn't open yet? Former Indian Springs Mall Site? Lees Summit Place property?
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by TheLastGentleman »

normalthings wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:39 pmWhy even move it downtown then?
It's out of the way of development, could spur a streetcar line across river, direct highway access if the new Broadway bridge is directly connected to I-35

Also, it's politically in KCMO
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by normalthings »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:57 pm
normalthings wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:39 pmWhy even move it downtown then?
It's out of the way of development, could spur a streetcar line across river, direct highway access if the new Broadway bridge is directly connected to I-35

Also, it's politically in KCMO
Why trade the current politically favorable and disconnected site for a politically unfavorable and disconnected site?
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by beautyfromashes »

normalthings wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:11 pm The median team (Minnesota) has had an average attendance of 28,000 this year. The Royals averaged 18,000 in 2019. I would expect higher attendance at a more centrally located and/or urban location but nothing more than 30K for the average game.
Our average the year we won the WS was 30k. The thing is, the cheapest tickets probably cost the most to build. You have to build them high, extra concrete, extra steel. I’d like to see a ~25k capacity stadium. Imagine the K with a little larger club level all around the field including the outfield and no upper deck at all. Keep the total footprint of the stadium small and buildings right up to the gates, no development barrier.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:17 pm
normalthings wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:11 pm The median team (Minnesota) has had an average attendance of 28,000 this year. The Royals averaged 18,000 in 2019. I would expect higher attendance at a more centrally located and/or urban location but nothing more than 30K for the average game.
Our average the year we won the WS was 30k. The thing is, the cheapest tickets probably cost the most to build. You have to build them high, extra concrete, extra steel. I’d like to see a ~25k capacity stadium. Imagine the K with a little larger club level all around the field including the outfield and no upper deck at all. Keep the total footprint of the stadium small and buildings right up to the gates, no development barrier.
Something like BPV 1 could be built to provide some additional seating on top of an adjacent development.

I think that the Royals would look to make up for lost parking revenues through the development of land around a new downtown stadium.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by FangKC »

It has to be in Jackson County. It's the only metro Missouri county with enough residents to financially support building a new stadium, or even maintaining the existing one. The only other is Johnson County, Kansas, and that defeats the purpose of a downtown stadium.

I agree with GRID that the stadium needs to be on the edge of downtown because there will be parking lots. The majority of park visitors will arrive by motor vehicle -- not a streetcar -- simply because the majority of fans live in the suburbs.

I'm against the stadium anywhere inside the downtown loop. So the East Village is out for me. I think the East Village should be developed with several blocks of mixed-use development. That would be the healthiest use of the East Village long-term. I imagine at some point at least one streetcar line running through the East Village-- probably 12th Street. Even if it ended around Kansas City University, a streetcar line would spur development of Paseo West into a future mixed-use neighborhood again.

I feel that same about the North Loop parcel. It should be development for year-round active mixed-use.

I am willing to entertain the riverfront. I think you could build it out with mixed-use buildings and a baseball stadium if one could convince the railroads to reroute some track, and give up some land for the stadium. I think a stadium could be squeezed in.

Image

Red lines are rerouted rail lines added to existing right-of-way. Green areas are new development parcels created by moving rail lines south.

Image
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by earthling »

^It could also fit in the casino spot, with casino/hotel built into the stadium. The stadium should go where a streetcar is already planned with other justifications, not drive a dedicated streetcar line. And would orient stadium view toward DT skyline. Free metro bus should also allow cutting down on parking.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

There is a 0% chance that the railroads give up a square inch of land
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by mgsports »

Riverfront?
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