Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
User avatar
normalthings
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7755
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by normalthings »

aknowledgeableperson wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:54 am
normalthings wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:45 am
UMKC Roo wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:37 am It depends what they want $2 bil for. The stadium isn't going to cost that much, so I'm curious what the rest of the money is for. Depending on how much they get will determine the residential situation. I would also add I think the last few comments are too bearish.
They never said they WANT $2 billion.

I feel like your posts try to stir things up constantly. Getting hard to keep reading them.
Its been touted as a $2B project. The money has to come from somewhere.
It’s been made clear the surrounding development district is included in that cost.
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6255
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

Using other recent TIF payouts as a guide, what would the city normally pay for $2B worth of downtown investment?
UMKC Roo
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:39 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by UMKC Roo »

That's what I'm asking as well^. Nobody's trying to stir the pot, we're just trying to get clarity on what they plan to do for $2 bil. How much of that is for stadium?
User avatar
alejandro46
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1130
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:24 pm
Location: King in the North(Land)

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by alejandro46 »

How much money has the PNL District TIF generated as a rough estimate? I know the city is running deficits on that, but just as a comp to understand how that could factor into paying for the "Ballpark District" aspect if Sherman is factoring a hotel, apartments, etc. into the $2B cost.

Here are the 4 most recent stadiums that have been constructed from www.baseballbible.net and costs obtaind from https://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/.

Rangers - $1B (40k cap, 2020)
Braves - $755M (41k cap, 2017)
Marlins - $515m (37k cap, 2012)
Twins - $545m (39k cap, 2010)
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 32358
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

If I'm reading the budget right https://www.kcmo.gov/home/showpublished ... 4535600000 (page 631) $%M past couple years, it was $8M pre-pandemic
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by daGOAT »

Personally, I could see the Royals working with Copaken to get the empty lots along 12th St developed. An East Village location will not feel too disconnected from Power and Light if this is the case. I think looking at something like Fig@7 here in Los Angeles is a great example of what Kansas City could have, especially if they desire more retail options downtown. Well-designed paseos could alleviate the need to walk around an entire block and shave minutes off the "commute" from Kaufman II and P&L. They definitely can benefit off each other undoubtedly.
User avatar
normalthings
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7755
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by normalthings »

daGOAT wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:45 pm Personally, I could see the Royals working with Copaken to get the empty lots along 12th St developed. An East Village location will not feel too disconnected from Power and Light if this is the case. I think looking at something like Fig@7 here in Los Angeles is a great example of what Kansas City could have, especially if they desire more retail options downtown. Well-designed paseos could alleviate the need to walk around an entire block and shave minutes off the "commute" from Kaufman II and P&L. They definitely can benefit off each other undoubtedly.
Sheman Stadium*
moderne
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:50 pm
Location: Mount Hope

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by moderne »

Is that a new pronoun?
aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12485
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

normalthings wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:25 pm
It’s been made clear the surrounding development district is included in that cost.
I understand that. To me it sounds like if the team can't get the surrounding district going the ballpark would be a dead issue. So it is $2B or nothing.
User avatar
Cratedigger
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:32 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Cratedigger »

daGOAT wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:45 pm Personally, I could see the Royals working with Copaken to get the empty lots along 12th St developed. An East Village location will not feel too disconnected from Power and Light if this is the case. I think looking at something like Fig@7 here in Los Angeles is a great example of what Kansas City could have, especially if they desire more retail options downtown. Well-designed paseos could alleviate the need to walk around an entire block and shave minutes off the "commute" from Kaufman II and P&L. They definitely can benefit off each other undoubtedly.
Make that part of Mcgee St. pedestrian only on gamedays? If designed right, that walk would be about .4 miles and under a 10 min walk. Not that far off from parking in Lot F and walking to Gate B (the closest gate)
UMKC Roo
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:39 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by UMKC Roo »

Yep. Fixing up 12th street will be key in all this. In my dreams this would be a pedestrian-only street going between P&L and the Royals...
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6255
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

Board of Eduction building would be prime for redevelopment right between two entertainment districts if they hadn’t torn it down.
User avatar
normalthings
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7755
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:15 pm Board of Eduction building would be prime for redevelopment right between two entertainment districts if they hadn’t torn it down.
There is a much higher and better use for this site
User avatar
alejandro46
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1130
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:24 pm
Location: King in the North(Land)

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by alejandro46 »

normalthings wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:04 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:15 pm Board of Eduction building would be prime for redevelopment right between two entertainment districts if they hadn’t torn it down.
There is a much higher and better use for this site
You could definitely put a walk-through passegway through the first floor of two tower block of some kind or a triangular shaped building on the lots between Grand and Oak. Then just a simple road diet for 12th street with bike lanes, better sidewalks and streetscapes and then shut it down on certain game days before and after.

Having a baseball district and giving discounted land to the teams to develop and profit off of is another way to pay for the stadium. They did that in Minnesota Vikings.
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6255
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

normalthings wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:04 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:15 pm Board of Eduction building would be prime for redevelopment right between two entertainment districts if they hadn’t torn it down.
There is a much higher and better use for this site
Not in my lifetime.
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by daGOAT »

Cratedigger wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:49 pm
daGOAT wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:45 pm Personally, I could see the Royals working with Copaken to get the empty lots along 12th St developed. An East Village location will not feel too disconnected from Power and Light if this is the case. I think looking at something like Fig@7 here in Los Angeles is a great example of what Kansas City could have, especially if they desire more retail options downtown. Well-designed paseos could alleviate the need to walk around an entire block and shave minutes off the "commute" from Kaufman II and P&L. They definitely can benefit off each other undoubtedly.
Make that part of Mcgee St. pedestrian only on gamedays? If designed right, that walk would be about .4 miles and under a 10 min walk. Not that far off from parking in Lot F and walking to Gate B (the closest gate)
Would be ideal! McGee could be a great place to just chill if it became ped only one day.
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 16113
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by GRID »

It's so hard to get my head around this project and how serious it is. KC is a town that rarely has more than one tower crane up at time in its downtown. The P&L District is still probably 15 years from seeing a build out with a hotel and another apartment tower and that is literally all that has gone up downtown as far as "major" construction other than loews. The speed of the P&L district development would be fine if it were not the only real major construction happening.

What are the real chances that KC gets:

A true MLB caliber/quality/size stadium and (not a cheap downgrade from Kauffman with some small fountains thrown in.)
A build out of this 2 billion district (let's say 1.25 billion since a decent stadium will cost at the very least 750 million.)
All the needed upgrades and modifications to the highway infrastructure to accommodate a stadium (probably at least 100-200 million), in the same city/state highway department that is replacing the historic and iconic Broadway bridge with a bare bones girder bridge.

I guess I want to still be alive when this is actually a functioning fully built out district with all the surrounding proper infrastructure that is tied well to the rest of downtown. I mean the Law Building is still parking lot right next to the Sprint Center.

I want to get pumped about this, but unless this is a build everything at once project and they build a stadium that has some wow factor to it, it's very hard to get overly excited. I mean it's almost 2023 and KC is going to try to host major events like World Cup and NFL Draft with a near non existent transit system with no real plans to improve it other than the Main Street tram line.

I know a lot of you will hate this post, but I still just do not think the city is doing enough to really build up the city when comparing to most peers even with major events like the World Cup. I thought the city would step things up a little bit more than maybe just having part of 670 capped or something.

If I recall SLC basically started building the LRT when they got the Olympics in the area. I mean major events tend to get major things done in cities. Forget about rail to Arrowhead, will the Adams Mark still be falling down when KC is hosting the World Cup?

IDK. I just thought the second KC won the World Cup, that the city would have come up with some MAJOR plans to upgrade the city and its infrastructure to really get ready to show off the city and show everybody that KC is a modern city. I just do not see that. At all. I see the city basically just doing what it was already doing. Finish the Main Street tram and maybe deck the 670? KCI was already in the works and the new terminal will be amazing compared to the old one, but nothing special to people that travel regularly.

The world cup alone was a great reason to get voters to pass some real stuff to improve KC and nothing. Probably not even 10 million to make the area around Arrowhead less ghetto looking.

Am I wrong? Too pessimistic?
Last edited by GRID on Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1250
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Overland Park, KS

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

GRID wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:30 pm Am I wrong? Too pessimistic?
Yes. Next question
WoodDraw
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2684
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by WoodDraw »

People need to stop over indexing on the world cup.

Someone make me one of those "don't make me tap the sign again" memes.
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 16113
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by GRID »

WoodDraw wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:52 pm People need to stop over indexing on the world cup.
But it seems like such a great opportunity to do something in Jackson County like OKC did with MAPS for example. Or Denver did with TREX.

A very large infrastructure upgrade to the county. Jackson County (especially between the RCP and TSC) needs so much more investment and the World Cup at Arrowhead could have been a great marketing tool to get public support to get some major things done in the county/city in addition to the already ongoing projects like the tram and mci.
Post Reply