Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
mean
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by mean »

If not thinking KCMO is going to magically get anywhere remotely near this scale of infill because of a stadium project is pessimistic:
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then what is thinking it is remotely possible? Magical thinking?
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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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The right people being involved combined with momentum already happening lead to a better chance of a successful project. Propping it down in a space more disconnected from existing development and hoping it can self-sustain is a recipe for failure.

This is why I prefer EV location last on the current list.

I can envision a stadium at the crossroads location and see it fitting very well into downtown. Same for jail site. The walkability factor is massive and while us downtown folks know the difference between 5 and 15 minutes is nothing, 95% of the people attending these games think it's the difference between sticking around downtown for awhile longer or heading straight to the car.

I can't talk about Ballpark Village enough. I'm not talking about the design aspect but the symmetry between the entertainment complex and the stadium. You can sit in Ballpark Village and watch the live feed from the stadium complete with the stadium audio. Granted Cardinals games sell well so they don't worry about it hurting attendance but that kind of ability and proximity is so important.
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normalthings
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by normalthings »

Cratedigger wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:20 am
KCPowercat wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:00 am ATL has no relevance here.
Has been referenced many times by both the Royals ownership group and Populous. The concepts from ATL have relevance
Any outdoor stadium from before ATL are out dated in design and size.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by daGOAT »

The Crossroads location is very unlikely. East Village isn’t nearly as isolated as people make it out to be, and is connected by transit + better access to the freeway. Even North Loop is a more ideal location; and would be infinitely more urban. Also we have no chance of the Wrigleyville vibe because that area is connected by L and Metra plus busy bus lines on Clark and Addison, not too mention it is next to the densest part of the city. Besides if the city knows how to grow incrementally frfr than P&L and Crossroads will be fine and feel very connected to East Village, while simultaneously preventing any more pointless demolitions. It’s not rocket science people.
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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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daGOAT wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:24 am The Crossroads location is very unlikely. East Village isn’t nearly as isolated as people make it out to be, and is connected by transit + better access to the freeway. Even North Loop is a more ideal location; and would be infinitely more urban. Also we have no chance of the Wrigleyville vibe because that area is connected by L and Metra plus busy bus lines on Clark and Addison, not too mention it is next to the densest part of the city. Besides if the city knows how to grow incrementally frfr than P&L and Crossroads will be fine and feel very connected to East Village, while simultaneously preventing any more pointless demolitions. It’s not rocket science people.
It's not rocket science but it's nearly as complicated. The many opinions and the fact there is no one size fits all option make it so.

You have people who want it downtown but don't want it in their neighborhood. You have people that don't care about the stadium but just want to remove surface lots. You have people who just want to watch baseball and don't care about surrounding development. and on and on and on.

You have the people behind the decisions who obviously care about the revenue side of things and want the best location that ensures the best opportunity to generate revenue.

Bottomline is anywhere downtown is an improvement over TSC for baseball.
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

daGOAT wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:24 am Also we have no chance of the Wrigleyville vibe because that area is connected by L and Metra plus busy bus lines on Clark and Addison
The streetcar stop there would be hardly any further than walking to Addison
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by shinatoo »

DColeKC wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:36 am
daGOAT wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:24 am The Crossroads location is very unlikely. East Village isn’t nearly as isolated as people make it out to be, and is connected by transit + better access to the freeway. Even North Loop is a more ideal location; and would be infinitely more urban. Also we have no chance of the Wrigleyville vibe because that area is connected by L and Metra plus busy bus lines on Clark and Addison, not too mention it is next to the densest part of the city. Besides if the city knows how to grow incrementally frfr than P&L and Crossroads will be fine and feel very connected to East Village, while simultaneously preventing any more pointless demolitions. It’s not rocket science people.
It's not rocket science but it's nearly as complicated. The many opinions and the fact there is no one size fits all option make it so.

You have people who want it downtown but don't want it in their neighborhood. You have people that don't care about the stadium but just want to remove surface lots. You have people who just want to watch baseball and don't care about surrounding development. and on and on and on.

You have the people behind the decisions who obviously care about the revenue side of things and want the best location that ensures the best opportunity to generate revenue.

Bottomline is anywhere downtown is an improvement over TSC for baseball.
You had me until that last line.

For most of us with a relationship with Kauffman, that support a move downtown, feel that whatever happens with a new stadium better be as close to perfect as possible. Great accessibility (both walking and by car from the suburbs), great architecture, superb amenities and lastly great views. I put great views last because the design of the stadium, on a small lot, may negate the need for a skyline view.

If the stadium is like Globe Life or Target field, or Yankee Stadium, or in some ways Truist Field, it will essentially be a bowl and the view won't matter as much. If it's like Kauffman it will matter a lot.

If a view is your number one with a bullet priority then put in where that ballfieds are in Penn Valley park. It will be considered the best view in baseball day one and will never be beat.

Image
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

shinatoo wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:00 pm
DColeKC wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:36 am
daGOAT wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:24 am The Crossroads location is very unlikely. East Village isn’t nearly as isolated as people make it out to be, and is connected by transit + better access to the freeway. Even North Loop is a more ideal location; and would be infinitely more urban. Also we have no chance of the Wrigleyville vibe because that area is connected by L and Metra plus busy bus lines on Clark and Addison, not too mention it is next to the densest part of the city. Besides if the city knows how to grow incrementally frfr than P&L and Crossroads will be fine and feel very connected to East Village, while simultaneously preventing any more pointless demolitions. It’s not rocket science people.
It's not rocket science but it's nearly as complicated. The many opinions and the fact there is no one size fits all option make it so.

You have people who want it downtown but don't want it in their neighborhood. You have people that don't care about the stadium but just want to remove surface lots. You have people who just want to watch baseball and don't care about surrounding development. and on and on and on.

You have the people behind the decisions who obviously care about the revenue side of things and want the best location that ensures the best opportunity to generate revenue.

Bottomline is anywhere downtown is an improvement over TSC for baseball.
You had me until that last line.

For most of us with a relationship with Kauffman, that support a move downtown, feel that whatever happens with a new stadium better be as close to perfect as possible. Great accessibility (both walking and by car from the suburbs), great architecture, superb amenities and lastly great views. I put great views last because the design of the stadium, on a small lot, may negate the need for a skyline view.

If the stadium is like Globe Life or Target field, or Yankee Stadium, or in some ways Truist Field, it will essentially be a bowl and the view won't matter as much. If it's like Kauffman it will matter a lot.

If a view is your number one with a bullet priority then put in where that ballfieds are in Penn Valley park. It will be considered the best view in baseball day one and will never be beat.

Image
Good point. I know I bring up the view but it’s not near the top of the priority list. I just mention is because a few folks on here don’t think it’s relevant at all. I agree we should be striving for perfection and do something special. Delegations from cities all across America visit downtown KC and specifically PNL when their cities are considering similar projects. We should hope this new downtown ballpark sees the same respect and is held as an example of amazing downtown baseball.
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GRID
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by GRID »

shinatoo wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:00 pm
DColeKC wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:36 am
daGOAT wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:24 am The Crossroads location is very unlikely. East Village isn’t nearly as isolated as people make it out to be, and is connected by transit + better access to the freeway. Even North Loop is a more ideal location; and would be infinitely more urban. Also we have no chance of the Wrigleyville vibe because that area is connected by L and Metra plus busy bus lines on Clark and Addison, not too mention it is next to the densest part of the city. Besides if the city knows how to grow incrementally frfr than P&L and Crossroads will be fine and feel very connected to East Village, while simultaneously preventing any more pointless demolitions. It’s not rocket science people.
It's not rocket science but it's nearly as complicated. The many opinions and the fact there is no one size fits all option make it so.

You have people who want it downtown but don't want it in their neighborhood. You have people that don't care about the stadium but just want to remove surface lots. You have people who just want to watch baseball and don't care about surrounding development. and on and on and on.

You have the people behind the decisions who obviously care about the revenue side of things and want the best location that ensures the best opportunity to generate revenue.

Bottomline is anywhere downtown is an improvement over TSC for baseball.
You had me until that last line.

For most of us with a relationship with Kauffman, that support a move downtown, feel that whatever happens with a new stadium better be as close to perfect as possible. Great accessibility (both walking and by car from the suburbs), great architecture, superb amenities and lastly great views. I put great views last because the design of the stadium, on a small lot, may negate the need for a skyline view.

If the stadium is like Globe Life or Target field, or Yankee Stadium, or in some ways Truist Field, it will essentially be a bowl and the view won't matter as much. If it's like Kauffman it will matter a lot.

If a view is your number one with a bullet priority then put in where that ballfieds are in Penn Valley park. It will be considered the best view in baseball day one and will never be beat.

Image
Exactly. And if they are going with nearly a AAA sized stadium (under 30k) then it's very likely that the outfield will have wide open views. I still think the IRS complex is the best spot. It would give you some pretty amazing views, but be close to everything downtown/Crown center, but also be in a location that won't harm downtown. It would help justify making union statin more of a transit hub etc. I know that location (nor anything in PVP) is not an option, but it would be pretty amazing.

Kauffman Stadium is a nice stadium. The location sucks, but the stadium generally makes up for it. If they move the Royals to a lesser stadium in a location that is just not great even though it's downtown, things will not go well. The east loop needs a LOT of development and infrastructure improvements or its just not going to be a very good experience, especially for those that already think downtown KC is a dump.

I think we all need to see some real plans with some real time schedules and real potential financing for a downtown stadium and all the surrounding developments (including infrastructure). This all has to happen at once. Remember, this is the same town that is replacing what should be a signature bridge with a freeway bridge because of "budget".

If you can't do it right. You may as well stay at the TSC.
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

DCole, is there some specific reason the Royals aren't considering the Jail Site? Seems like that's the one everyone can behind.
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GRID
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by GRID »

I thought the Jail site was one of the sites being looked at. Is it not? If you can somehow make that site work by building at least a plaza (if not part of the stadium itself) over 670 and making the stadium tie into the crossroads and the rest of the highway deck that might work.

But still need to make sure the EV is developed so it doesn't just turn into TSC west (remain parking lots for the stadium).
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

DColeKC wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:20 am The right people being involved combined with momentum already happening lead to a better chance of a successful project. Propping it down in a space more disconnected from existing development and hoping it can self-sustain is a recipe for failure.
Yes, but putting it in an area bounded by two freeways and a massive print facility isn't going to make for a successful result either.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

My vote:
1. North Loop (bye-bye Flashcube)
2. EV
3. PVP
4. Crossroads
5. West Bottoms
6. Harlem
7. 18th and Vine
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normalthings
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by normalthings »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:04 pm DCole, is there some specific reason the Royals aren't considering the Jail Site? Seems like that's the one everyone can behind.
it doesnt fit
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

It could fit. It's been shown here a few different ways
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KCDowntown
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCDowntown »

normalthings wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:42 pm it doesnt fit
I measured a bunch of stadiums last night on Google Maps and it could fit with the NE, E, or SE orientation. To get a northward orientation it would be cutting it real close or require decking over that part of the highway for pedestrians. Whole thing assumes jail & state building are removed and Interstate Building(s) removed or integrated with stadium. Long lines building would remain.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by shinatoo »

KCDowntown wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:53 pm
normalthings wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:42 pm it doesnt fit
I measured a bunch of stadiums last night on Google Maps and it could fit with the NE, E, or SE orientation. To get a northward orientation it would be cutting it real close or require decking over that part of the highway for pedestrians. Whole thing assumes jail & state building are removed and Interstate Building(s) removed or integrated with stadium. Long lines building would remain.

KCDowntown
There is also a historic church you would need to deal with. 130 years old and I assume it's listed.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

I think the church could be avoided. No doubt it's very tight but it can fit.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by shinatoo »

I've given up on Penn Valley but I'll post my ideal stadium for that location. With the roof minus the glass wall in the outfield.

https://tfcstadiums.com/future-es-con-field-hokkaido/
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCDowntown »

KCPowercat wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:10 pm I think the church could be avoided. No doubt it's very tight but it can fit.
Yeah, the church wouldn't be affected.

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