Downtown Baseball Stadium

[TheUrbanRoo]

The mayor and governor want it so far as they don’t have to support it financially.

Ok first of all, that's not true...Kehoe made it clear on the trail he'd do what it takes to keep it from Kansas. The others didn't. I've no doubt Q would too.

The place designed for 50,000 + workers can’t support a use with 18,000 guests?

Sure in theory if they all went to games after work they could. But most are going home. You need density nearby. That area doesn't have a bunch of apartments nearby with people who can walk to games in their free time like downtown does. Much older crowd too. They need downtown.

Your perspective makes sense as a general fan of the sport and not someone who actually builds stuff here

This is like that time you said "they could never host a WNBA team at T-Mobile! It wouldn't happen!" and then the next week KC Biz Journal had an article about how they'd already talked to T-Mobile and it was no problem having WNBA at all.

[langosta]

Ok first of all, that's not true...Kehoe made it clear on the trail he'd do what it takes to keep it from Kansas. The others didn't. I've no doubt Q would too.



Sure in theory if they all went to games after work they could. But most are going home. You need density nearby. That area doesn't have a bunch of apartments nearby with people who can walk to games in their free time like downtown does. Much older crowd too. They need downtown.

Your perspective makes sense as a general fan of the sport and not someone who actually builds stuff here

This is like that time you said "they could never host a WNBA team at T-Mobile! It wouldn't happen!" and then the next week KC Biz Journal had an article about how they'd already talked to T-Mobile and it was no problem having WNBA at all.

What I said is that controlling all revenue streams is very important to team financials and that they really need their own venue in the long term to get close to break even.

[KCPowercat]

so Lang you are telling us right now the stadium is going to KS if it stays in the metro?

[Chris Stritzel]

In my opinion, real fans don't abandon a team because they decided to build a new home in a less than ideal location. Fanbases tend to stick with their beloved team through good and bad times. I don't see Atlanta Braves fans not showing up to games, or their fanbase suffering, with the team being far outside the City. The White Sox on the other hand, it doesn't matter where they end up when their fanbase is sick of their owner for killing the team.

If the Royals moved to Overland Park, which is still unlikely in my view and Fescoe is pulling his "sources" B.S. out of his ass in a bid to apply pressure on the team to get news out there, the development approach they'd take would more than likely change the direction of the immediate area. One big problem is the amount of demolition they'd need to embark on, and that would add a considerable amount of time to the timeline to get this project done. They have 6 years to reveal, build, and open a new home. But building in Overland Park also means they might be able to develop far more buildings as part of their development, boosting off-season revenues, which can they be invested back into the team.

Additionally, I think it's ridiculous to believe that if the Royals didn't build their stadium in Downtown that progress would be halted. Notice that good things have been happening even without the team being Downtown. New residential buildings continue to be proposed and built (although at a slower rate than we'd like), the number of vacant buildings is dwindling, the Streetcar is expanding, Downtown is a more vibrant place. There's no guarantee that with a stadium these sorts of things would accelerate. I'm in-favor of a Downtown baseball stadium because growing up in St. Louis, it was natural to go Downtown for a Cardinals game. Yet the team's presence in Downtown STL since 1966 has led to no significant development, enhancements, or activity. 59 years of presence and not much to show for it besides half of Ballpark Village and nothing more.

People also need to realize that if the team settled on Overland Park, it was likely because the City/County gave up working with the team, the State didn't want to work with them either, and Kansas/JoCo/Overland Park were the only group actively pursuing them with open arms. On top of this, if it came down to the team leaving the Metro Area for an alternative Metro Area, anyone would be begging the team to stay.

The doom and gloom "death spiral" loop of the preferred alternative not happening is not to be believed in my view.

I continue to believe that Washington Square is the desired site as it checks the boxes the team previously revealed and is easier to get done when you have one vacant building to do away with and a problem park being replaced. My expectation is we'll hear where the team ends up after the Chiefs get done with their current post season run and heading into Opening Day (March 27th). That's 77 days to negotiate, work on designs, finalize details, and begin to develop your marketing strategy.

[langosta]

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[langosta]

so Lang you are telling us right now the stadium is going to KS if it stays in the metro?

Nothing is decided until there are shovels in the ground. Virginia is a famous and recent example. Unlike Virginia, Kansas already approved the needed legislation as I understand it.

[beautyfromashes]

A stadium at 119th = Kemper Arena. It will spell the eventual loss of the Royals in Kansas City.

[UMKCroo]

A stadium at 119th = Kemper Arena. It will spell the eventual loss of the Royals in Kansas City.

That’s the point here. Downtown needs a catalytic event/investment to keep momentum. The royals need the ecosystem of downtown to be successful. A suburban stadium is bad news for the entire metro and for the future of the royals.

[beautyfromashes]

Additionally, I think it's ridiculous to believe that if the Royals didn't build their stadium in Downtown that progress would be halted. Notice that good things have been happening even without the team being Downtown. New residential buildings continue to be proposed and built (although at a slower rate than we'd like), the number of vacant buildings is dwindling, the Streetcar is expanding, Downtown is a more vibrant place. There's no guarantee that with a stadium these sorts of things would accelerate.

25 years. It's taken way too long and this will effectively lock downtown into this pace for the rest of my life. A downtown stadium is the only thing that will grossly accelerate the pace downtown. You're young enough to wait and get the benefit. It would mean a cashing in of chips for me. I'd make plans to leave.

[langosta]

Additionally, I think it's ridiculous to believe that if the Royals didn't build their stadium in Downtown that progress would be halted. Notice that good things have been happening even without the team being Downtown. New residential buildings continue to be proposed and built (although at a slower rate than we'd like), the number of vacant buildings is dwindling, the Streetcar is expanding, Downtown is a more vibrant place. There's no guarantee that with a stadium these sorts of things would accelerate.

25 years. It's taken way too long and this will effectively lock downtown into this pace for the rest of my life. A downtown stadium is the only thing that will grossly accelerate the pace downtown. You're young enough to wait and get the benefit. It would mean a cashing in of chips for me. I'd make plans to leave.

Hoping and praying MLS or NFL come in to downtown.

[TheLastGentleman]

I give this maybe a 5% chance of being the final site. I'd predict 10 more sites until a stadium actually gets built.

[langosta]

Additionally, I think it's ridiculous to believe that if the Royals didn't build their stadium in Downtown that progress would be halted. Notice that good things have been happening even without the team being Downtown. New residential buildings continue to be proposed and built (although at a slower rate than we'd like), the number of vacant buildings is dwindling, the Streetcar is expanding, Downtown is a more vibrant place. There's no guarantee that with a stadium these sorts of things would accelerate.

25 years. It's taken way too long and this will effectively lock downtown into this pace for the rest of my life. A downtown stadium is the only thing that will grossly accelerate the pace downtown. You're young enough to wait and get the benefit. It would mean a cashing in of chips for me. I'd make plans to leave.

the potential for a future stadium will have locked down two large portions of downtown for nearly 30 years. and that includes having lost a pretty serious previous bid. could very well continue for the next one!

[dnweava]

The new MO governor doesn't get sworn in until next week. Leaking rumors to someone like Fescoe this week just feels like political pressure to get Koehe to act as soon as he gets into office.

[BrisbaneKC]

I was back in KC for the first time since the pandemic over Christmas. Downtown KC really needs the Royals. The Royals after the shine dissipates will not sustain in Johnson County.

The balance of power in the region should not be in a car centric suburb far removed from the historical and geographical heart of the main city, but thats where we are and are doubling down on. It was actually quite disheartening coming back after living in places which are much more vibrant than KC.

Missouri has themselves as much to blame in my view. If there was a strong core in KCMO they wouldn't be losing near as much to Kansas even with all the free money I mean state bonds. The Missouri side also has so many clusters of sprawl outside the Downtown/Plaza area when it comes to offices and attractions like Ward Parkway, Executive Hills, the stadium locations, Bannister, around the airport, I 470/70 interchange, and now there is a lot of JoCo type development in Lee’s Summit and Liberty, it's all the same suburban garbage. The vote was shot down to pieces. The region just doesn't care about anything urban. I’m with the majority here, for those of us wanting urban living KC is sadly the wrong place.

Kansas City, the world's biggest parking lot.

[GRID]

I can't even debate people anymore trying to justify or make excuses or even defend why it's okay for the Royals to move to JoCo. Time for younger people to take over and do this for the next 30 years lol. I'm exhausted.

I still hope the Royals end up downtown, but I have a feeling they are going to end up in KS and even people on this forum do not understand how far reaching the consequences will be for KCMO.

Again, you are not only wasting a chance of major investment in the city, you are taking away some of what little life there is today. Kauffman's current location at least provides some traffic to downtown. Many visiting fans stay there now. A stadium in JoCo will take 90% of what Kauffman currently does for downtown in addition to a major loss of billions of dollars in urban investment and millions of downtown visitors if the stadium were actually downtown.

Again it has nothing to to with being a Royals fan. It has everything to do with fighting for decades for KCMO to be a real city. It's not even just the Royals stadium, it's the people there. Parking, parking parking parking parking, is one of the only words people know in a city that has more un-used / underused parking than any other city in the entire country.

Again it's exhausting.

But I pull for people like langosta, anthony, chris etc who are trying their best and are even trying to develop there. But when KC throws away chances like this over and over, it's just never going to really be what it could be.

And I really thought Sherman would be 100% committed to staying in KCMO. I thought he would sell the team before moving to KS and he may as well because if they do end up in KS, they will be out of KC anyway within 20 years, even with a new stadium. They won't consistently draw 15k, let alone 25k in KS. No way. And in the mean time, they will be an embarrassment in MLB with a crappy suburban stadium drawing 10k fans. So as a fan, may as well get out now.

[GRID]

As I said before, I grew up across the street from that Sprint site and even I'd be disgusted if they go there and not downtown. What a joke.

And for the record I don't believe it's going there at all. Highway access isn't as close as you think, residents would hate it, and place isn't even set up for sports/events at all. It's designed for just standard suburbanite living. And they're not gonna want to change that to become an event epicenter.

You've got a mayor, governor who support it in Missouri with a great urban location that nobody's gonna fret about. I don't see it going anywhere else.

That site could handle the traffic fine.

People don't realize that a big royals crowd of 25k is only like 7-8k cars which is why the argument that downtown can't handle the Royals is extremely silly. The Royals would barely tax any parking or street volume capacity downtown. Downtown KC has miles and miles of gridded streets that are NEVER anywhere near capacity. Even the busiest streets have traffic volumes lower than most suburban collector streets. The only busy street in all of urban KCMO is SW Trafficway which is not even downtown. I can't remember the last time I even sat in a que of more than three cars long at any urban KCMO traffic signal. KC is a very empty feeling city. It feels strange honestly. All the traffic is in the suburbs, yet the suburbanites are scared of downtown traffic. It's bizarre as hell.

It's why I want a stadium downtown. It desperately needs cars, people, everything.

The sprint site could handle the traffic. It's bordered on three sides by six lane super arterials and you have three high capacity interchanges with 435 and quick access to US69. Traffic would be a non issue with some traffic management.

And it doesn't matter if the residents don't want it. They probably wont' really care, but even if they do, the county, cities and state will do it anyway. There is little they can do to stop it.

[dukuboy1]

The location at 119th, I just see as much if not more opposition than what the EC site had. Dropping a stadium there would be very disruptive to everything build around the area for like 5-10 mile radius.

The Royals & the Metro gain no net positive from that location. Beyond having a new ballpark the site offers nothing else. Would be a very unwise move & within 10 yrs they will be wanting to move. Seems like a fools errand to pursue any further than exploring it as a detailed “what if” plan

[Chris Stritzel]

The biggest concern I have about a potential Royals move to Overland Park is the abandonment of tapped potential in Downtown. You wouldn’t have the best outcomes, as others have pointed out. This is why I think they’ll still go Downtown. Every site outside of the City of KCMO is a negotiation tool. The City and State do not want to lose the team as it would be embarrassing. I think things will work out again, but I don’t fully believe the alarmism stuff because I think there are far more puzzle pieces that’ll make a vibrant Downtown. Royals are just one piece for Downtown, but several more pieces remain. All pieces will slowly fall into place overtime.

[GRID]

The location at 119th, I just see as much if not more opposition than what the EC site had. Dropping a stadium there would be very disruptive to everything build around the area for like 5-10 mile radius.

The Royals & the Metro gain no net positive from that location. Beyond having a new ballpark the site offers nothing else. Would be a very unwise move & within 10 yrs they will be wanting to move. Seems like a fools errand to pursue any further than exploring it as a detailed “what if” plan

I just do not understand the logic of tearing down those office buildings either. Those are modern concrete buildings with brick exteriors. Very expensive to build and they would be very expensive to tear down. Most of them are leased too.

Sure there are parking garages. But they all small and strung out over a large area and would be nearly impossible to incorporate into a usable mixed use walkable district. But I guess if they tore down all of the office building and built everything inside the sprint parkway loop, it might work. It would be a colossal waste of money though.

Nothing about this makes sense other than the state of KS handing the Royals a couple billion dollars. But I keep holding out hope that there is no way they are going to tear down millions of sq feet of mostly leased class A office space to do this. But it would not surprise me if they did.

[dukuboy1]

I hear you, KS option doesn’t make a lot of sense. The only thing would be the Royals ownership group looking to line their pockets with all the money KS is willing to throw at them and for what? To say you have a MLB team? It will certainly generate revenue in the short term, although not sure what KS realizes beyond sales tax revenue on money spent as I’m sure the tax revenue would be deferred for years. By the time KS could cash in the team will be moving again after 10 yrs because they realize the site is not good and their desire to develop around it never played out like they had hoped.

Just a strange and unwise move IMO. Given the Royals track record o er the last 30 years I’m not surprised they are considering stupidity as the answer