Downtown Baseball Stadium

[DMNBT_RCJH]

It's mentioned in this video that the Royals are working with KS behind the scenes. "Royals are very interested"...

Hopefully they are just "looking" and they ultimately choose downtown but I still have a gut feeling that the Royals could end up in some JoCo project and the Chiefs renovate (worst case for both teams).

Mentions the Royals are further along with KS than the Chiefs who are still leaning towards renovation. Although the Chiefs have recently told Jackson County that they may not be that interested in a vote this fall. So who knows.

https://fox4kc.com/politics/4-the-peopl ... X0LW9PAPHA

Kansas is still very much in play, like I said a few weeks ago. The STAR bonds aren’t going to disappear and the developers are assembling on that side of the state line: https://amp.kansascity.com/sports/spt-c ... 01432.html

My biggest concern with WSP is ingress and egress.

[Cratedigger]

Of course Vince Bryant got involved in this somehow. He can't finish any of his projects and could stumble into this.

Would have been involved with the east crossroads site too

Renderings by 3D Development / BNIM:

https://www.welovekcbaseball.com/

How about those 25 story buildings in the crossroads? Is that in the parking lot at 19th and grand?


Also can’t believe Steve McDowell let his precious SkyLink to Union Station be removed in this render

[KCMax]

The developers have a website. FWIW, no indication the Royals are involved with any of these plans.

https://www.welovekcbaseball.com/

[KCPowercat]

That rendering is not realistic. Goodness.

[TheUrbanRoo]

I'll say it again, I really think the left field bleachers need be taken down and it needs to be the RF bleachers that have the high grandstands upper deck...that is if we care about actual skyline views.

[GRID]

That rendering is not realistic. Goodness.

Yeah, I would have hoped respectable architecture firms would have tried a little harder to make it more realistic. They should have spent a little more time on this before releasing it to the public.

[KCMax]

They did the best they could using MS Paint.

[Cratedigger]

That rendering is not realistic. Goodness.

Yeah, I would have hoped respectable architecture firms would have tried a little harder to make it more realistic. They should have spent a little more time on this before releasing it to the public.

Looks pretty consistent to other early concept renders by BNIM. For better or worse.

[Chris Stritzel]

I also think it should noted that since this isn’t an official design, there’s no need to spend considerable amounts of time on a concept. So I wouldn’t read much into the design. This seems to be taking the concept from 20 years ago and making it 3D in a bid to show people what’s possible, not what’ll happen.

[KCPowercat]

It's a waste of time putting that out there. that weird twitter handle one was better than that. In any case these "designs" don't do anything for anybody.

[Cratedigger]

I'm much more interested in the way they are selling the site







\



This last one is funny because their own render shows a potential road diet on Grand.

[TheUrbanRoo]

We've got to insist any new parking garages have ground floor amenities.

Also interesting how they avoid any sort of bridge here to Walnut, they just pave the stadium right over the tracks.

[GRID]

I feel like the crown center garage has way more spaced than they show there. And if they are going to release parking garages nearby, they may as well release how many surface lot spaces there are as well.

I do have renewed faith in the Streetcar being able to handle the crowds though. I know I have always said it's slow, single car vehicles have low capacity etc.

Plus I'm used to Metro in DC which can move tens of thousands of people without even trying. A sold out Nats game flows into a single metro station with literally no problem.

However, Baltimore's LRT is a joke. KC's streetcar will blow it out of the water in usability I think. I think a much higher percentage of fans will use the KC streetcar than use the Baltimore light rail.

There are several reasons why, mainly just that the Baltimore light rail is terribly ran. I mean it's bad. Frequencies are so bad and they don't even try to accommodate O's game day traffic.

I'm talking about 30-40 minute frequencies and they are lucky if a two car train shows up.

See pics below.

However there are design and rolling stock difference etc that will make the KC Streetcar work better than a full blown LRT system like Baltimore's.

1. KC Streetcar is low floor. That alone makes a difference.

2. The way the KC Streetcar line is developed where people can park all along the line. Baltimore's LRT is more of a park and ride system. people park in the suburbs and ride it into the city.

3. I think KC Streetcar will do whatever it takes to accommodate crowds, increasing frequencies, purchasing more vehicles etc.

So while the streetcar is not going to move what a heavy rail system does or even what a system like Denver or MSP or San Diego does. For what it is, I think it will do well to bring good portion of fans to and from the games.

Speaking of the Baltimore LRT, it's bad to BWI as well. It's slow, the frequencies are terrible, all the steps in the trains would be annoying for luggage etc. So as much as I make fun of a streetcar going all the way to KCI, it would likely be a hell of lot better than what Baltimore has and they have full blown LRT.

[smh]

I feel like the crown center garage has way more spaced than they show there. And if they are going to release parking garages nearby, they may as well release how many surface lot spaces there are as well.

I do have renewed faith in the Streetcar being able to handle the crowds though. I know I have always said it's slow, single car vehicles have low capacity etc.

Plus I'm used to Metro in DC which can move tens of thousands of people without even trying. A sold out Nats game flows into a single metro station with literally no problem.

However, Baltimore's LRT is a joke. KC's streetcar will blow it out of the water in usability I think. I think a much higher percentage of fans will use the KC streetcar than use the Baltimore light rail.

There are several reasons why, mainly just that the Baltimore light rail is terribly ran. I mean it's bad. Frequencies are so bad and they don't even try to accommodate O's game day traffic.

I'm talking about 30-40 minute frequencies and they are lucky if a two car train shows up.

See pics below.

However there are design and rolling stock difference etc that will make the KC Streetcar work better than a full blown LRT system like Baltimore's.

1. KC Streetcar is low floor. That alone makes a difference.

2. The way the KC Streetcar line is developed where people can park all along the line. Baltimore's LRT is more of a park and ride system. people park in the suburbs and ride it into the city.

3. I think KC Streetcar will do whatever it takes to accommodate crowds, increasing frequencies, purchasing more vehicles etc.

So while the streetcar is not going to move what a heavy rail system does or even what a system like Denver or MSP or San Diego does. For what it is, I think it will do well to bring good portion of fans to and from the games.

Speaking of the Baltimore LRT, it's bad to BWI as well. It's slow, the frequencies are terrible, all the steps in the trains would be annoying for luggage etc. So as much as I make fun of a streetcar going all the way to KCI, it would likely be a hell of lot better than what Baltimore has and they have full blown LRT.

Agreed. And if the demand (and dollars) are there, no capacity reason KC Streetcar couldn't run higher frequency service after games.

[beautyfromashes]

I think KC Streetcar will do whatever it takes to accommodate crowds, increasing frequencies, purchasing more vehicles etc.

I agree with this. It's almost better having a lot more small vehicles that can immediately leave when full than have a few large capacity vehicles. Stack all the trains in front of the stadium, including just south of Pershing where the walking lane is, and zip them out quickly. Have signal priority on all lights close to the stadium or police that stop traffic and just rush as many people out as fast as possible. You could almost switch the directions so both sides of the street move away from the stadium at the same time. The point isn't to get people all the way to their homes like other cities. Get them to the Plaza where they parked or Home Depot or P&L. The cluster after the game is the enemy. Disperse it as soon as possible.

[moderne]

What are the low above ground structures shown in what is currently WSP?

[TheUrbanRoo]

The Chiefs will be playing in Kansas City, Missouri for a generation to come.

The Royals will be playing in Kansas City, Missouri for a generation to come.

Don’t get distracted by the day-to-day sausage making. Good work is getting done to ensure a positive future for all.

-Mayor Q, on twitter
https://x.com/QuintonLucasKC/status/1828184937951891818

[Rusty Irish]

Parsons and Lucas are 100 percent on the same page. Parsons talked up Lucas and shit on Frank White on one of the radio stations the other week. Definitely a KC City/Missouri State deal is what will be the offering on that side. Jackson County is done.

[langosta]

I feel like the crown center garage has way more spaced than they show there. And if they are going to release parking garages nearby, they may as well release how many surface lot spaces there are as well.

I do have renewed faith in the Streetcar being able to handle the crowds though. I know I have always said it's slow, single car vehicles have low capacity etc.

Plus I'm used to Metro in DC which can move tens of thousands of people without even trying. A sold out Nats game flows into a single metro station with literally no problem.

However, Baltimore's LRT is a joke. KC's streetcar will blow it out of the water in usability I think. I think a much higher percentage of fans will use the KC streetcar than use the Baltimore light rail.

There are several reasons why, mainly just that the Baltimore light rail is terribly ran. I mean it's bad. Frequencies are so bad and they don't even try to accommodate O's game day traffic.

I'm talking about 30-40 minute frequencies and they are lucky if a two car train shows up.

See pics below.

However there are design and rolling stock difference etc that will make the KC Streetcar work better than a full blown LRT system like Baltimore's.

1. KC Streetcar is low floor. That alone makes a difference.

2. The way the KC Streetcar line is developed where people can park all along the line. Baltimore's LRT is more of a park and ride system. people park in the suburbs and ride it into the city.

3. I think KC Streetcar will do whatever it takes to accommodate crowds, increasing frequencies, purchasing more vehicles etc.

So while the streetcar is not going to move what a heavy rail system does or even what a system like Denver or MSP or San Diego does. For what it is, I think it will do well to bring good portion of fans to and from the games.

Speaking of the Baltimore LRT, it's bad to BWI as well. It's slow, the frequencies are terrible, all the steps in the trains would be annoying for luggage etc. So as much as I make fun of a streetcar going all the way to KCI, it would likely be a hell of lot better than what Baltimore has and they have full blown LRT.

Agreed. And if the demand (and dollars) are there, no capacity reason KC Streetcar couldn't run higher frequency service after games.

Thanks for the trip report! Most of my transit to baseball experience has been in DC and St Louis. I’d say St Louis is a good example of something we could do 5-6 minute peak headway with 4 car trains (at least pre-Covid) can take a meaningful portion of fans. Dedicated ROW so the capacity could be upped to 1-2 minute headways during a major event.

I believe it’s been said officially that 4-5 minutes is the maximum frequency of the streetcar. Unfortunately that caps you at ~4,000 fans an hour vs the 10-12,000 light rail could. The per hour operating cost of adding cars is rather limited on a system that can support multi-car trains

[FangKC]

WSP would be a no-brainer if we had a regional rail system from Union Station to Merriam, Overland Park, Lenexa, Olathe, Independence, Lee's Summit, Warrensburg, Parkville, St. Joseph, Liberty, Bonner Springs and Lawrence.