KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:56 pm
Another business going into the East Crossroads baseball location as another example of this area already thriving
I get it but can't really claim that area is "thriving" while there's 5.2 acres with an empty monstrosity. For every decent business in that 3 block area, there's 2 not so decent ones.
I don't want to hurt peoples feelings by buying out property and forcing tiny cheese places to be relocated, so I'll stop talking about this being the best physical location for the baseball stadium. Maybe the Mayor will follow my lead.
Man, things like tiny cheese shops are what make an urban area thrive and unique, not bar complexes. Trying to diminish all the businesses there and moving there is telling.
The Star building sucks for sure but wanting to fix that isn't worth it. It would be just as useful to tear the whole thing down and restore the neighborhood.
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:48 pm
Man, things like tiny cheese shops are what make an urban area thrive and unique, not bar complexes. Trying to diminish all the businesses there and moving there is telling.
The Star building sucks for sure but wanting to fix that isn't worth it. It would be just as useful to tear the whole thing down and restore the neighborhood.
My comment about the cheese place was mostly sarcastic but if you want to actually discuss what's more important to certain areas we can. I'm not trying to diminish any business's that are doing well but let's not ignore the fact there's several business's that downtown would be better off without.
You pretend that if a baseball stadium were to go into E. Crossroads these businesses would just be decimated. The businesses could not only still be around with a new baseball stadium but be in better facilities with far more pedestrian traffic.
Jumping in here only to say that the "tiny cheese place" is Kansas City gem Green Dirt Farm, famous for their chef's table dinners, delicious sheep's milk cheeses, and awesome little cafe up in Weston - great spot for lunch and a glass of wine as it also serves as the tasting room for Terravox winery.
Very excited they will be opening downtown and expanding the food menu, albeit in a still relatively quiet part of the crossroads. The Pairing down the street is awesome as well.
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:48 pm
Man, things like tiny cheese shops are what make an urban area thrive and unique, not bar complexes. Trying to diminish all the businesses there and moving there is telling.
The Star building sucks for sure but wanting to fix that isn't worth it. It would be just as useful to tear the whole thing down and restore the neighborhood.
My comment about the cheese place was mostly sarcastic but if you want to actually discuss what's more important to certain areas we can. I'm not trying to diminish any business's that are doing well but let's not ignore the fact there's several business's that downtown would be better off without.
You pretend that if a baseball stadium were to go into E. Crossroads these businesses would just be decimated. The businesses could not only still be around with a new baseball stadium but be in better facilities with far more pedestrian traffic.
I don't know what is "telling" about my comments.
I wasn't pretending anything. I was simply saying this area is growing businesses and Green Dirt is another example. They are growing there naturally as it's a "cheap" place they can grow. You drop a downtown stadium there you alter the pH totally of that neighborhood.
What I found "telling" is diminishing a wildly successful local cheese chop like Green Dirt. These are literally what we've hoped would come downtown forever. This is what we were building all this for.
I thought we were building all this to attract visitors and increase the amount of downtown residents.
A baseball stadium would help that goal more than any business would.
I understand the negative consequences of a baseball stadium going in crossroads. I also understand the positives far outnumber the negatives and would mean significant increases in revenue for many crossroads business owners.
Let’s just keep it boring and discuss the EV location. I’m sure the mayor won’t get his way anyway.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:59 am
Let’s just keep it boring and discuss the EV location. I’m sure the mayor won’t get his way anyway.
I don't understand continuing to mention what the mayor wants? He doesn't own this city, is that supposed to provide validation to your opinion or something?
Definitely great to bring baseball downtown for a litany of reasons. Even if there wasn't one business in that crossroads site, it's a bad location to utilize our current infrastructure like parking garages so we don't have to add more to support a ballpark. The fact that this area is a thriving and growing neighborhood just adds to that.
I don't even deny that some of the biggest stakeholders might be able to make more money if they put the stadium in the Crossroads. But my stake in this is as a citizen, community member, and a supporter of the small and local businesses. I want bringing the stadium downtown to be worthwhile, but maximizing the financial gains of a select few stake holders is not my interest. I see where you are coming from Dcole, I just think it's kind of a bankrupt vision for the community.
I still don’t see how the Crossroads east of Main, or especially east of Grand, is growing or thriving more than a trickle. All the new developments and energy is happening in the west side. East side is littered with surface lots and no plans to change it.
UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:19 am
I still don’t see how the Crossroads east of Main, or especially east of Grand, is growing or thriving more than a trickle. All the new developments and energy is happening in the west side. East side is littered with surface lots and no plans to change it.
You haven't been to east crossroads and the 8,000 breweries there now?
DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:58 pm
The Royals district should focus on low-rise residential and retail with a few sports bars mixed in. If it goes in EV the bars will likely be dead on non-game days.
UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:19 am
I still don’t see how the Crossroads east of Main, or especially east of Grand, is growing or thriving more than a trickle. All the new developments and energy is happening in the west side. East side is littered with surface lots and no plans to change it.
You haven't been to east crossroads and the 8,000 breweries there now?
Seriously. Go to Parlor, Mean Mule, Chartreuse Saloon or Paradise Garden Club if that's more your thing. Developments are happening on the east side of the crossroads. Even in and around the area that has been mentioned for the stadium.
DCole I think I see where you're coming from and I think it's both in pursuit of the same goal: a more vibrant and busy downtown. Attracting visitors and increasing the amount of downtown residents is a big part of that. But the character of the place, the character of neighborhood businesses matters too
Cratedigger wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:52 am
Seriously. Go to Parlor, Mean Mule, Chartreuse Saloon or Paradise Garden Club if that's more your thing. Developments are happening on the east side of the crossroads. Even in and around the area that has been mentioned for the stadium.
DCole I think I see where you're coming from and I think it's both in pursuit of the same goal: a more vibrant and busy downtown. Attracting visitors and increasing the amount of downtown residents is a big part of that. But the character of the place, the character of neighborhood businesses matters too
The aim should be more a vibrant & busy downtown, yes. It is about what most accomplishes that goal.
River Market is a district where development is happening all over and surface lots are getting filled. I'm sure stores are being filled in the E Crossroads, but beyond that we're not getting any surface lots or new development there. I'm not against what you're saying, but my priority is just getting these empty lots filled. It's just not happening over there, and Royals could fill out a ton of them and then cause spring more to get filled with private development. You could fill lots in the EV with Royals too -- but Crossroads has the much better streetscape and won't be dead on off-days.
And of course we should aim for this stadium for to blend in with area and not just gentrify. That is my aim.
Cratedigger wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:52 am
Seriously. Go to Parlor, Mean Mule, Chartreuse Saloon or Paradise Garden Club if that's more your thing. Developments are happening on the east side of the crossroads. Even in and around the area that has been mentioned for the stadium.
DCole I think I see where you're coming from and I think it's both in pursuit of the same goal: a more vibrant and busy downtown. Attracting visitors and increasing the amount of downtown residents is a big part of that. But the character of the place, the character of neighborhood businesses matters too
The aim should be more a vibrant & busy downtown, yes. It is about what most accomplishes that goal.
River Market is a district where development is happening all over and surface lots are getting filled. I'm sure stores are being filled in the E Crossroads, but beyond that we're not getting any surface lots or new development there. I'm not against what you're saying, but my priority is just getting these empty lots filled. It's just not happening over there, and Royals could fill out a ton of them and then cause spring more to get filled with private development. And of course we should aim for this stadium for to blend with Crossroads in and not just gentrify. That is my aim.
100% with you. I want surface lots downtown filled.
So why tear down active buildings to make that happen? Seems like the quickest path to the goal would be to build something on the sea of lots in EV.
Crossroads will fill in. Maybe not as quickly as you or I would hope for. But there is momentum
Lol you can't gentrify the EV. There is literally nothing and hardly anyone there. So let the big money and the master developers have it as their play thing. No harm can be done and with the right vision big rewards will be reaped. We need money on that scale to ever make that are viable for anything. The Crossroads is already an ecosystem that is fertile ground for local entrepreneurs. Redevelop a massive section all at once and you will destroy that ecosystem and extinct or extirpate some valued species in that hood to extend the metaphor lol. It's hard to use gentrification to refer to the Crossroads since it clearly has already undergone that process on one level. But furthering so called gentrification in the Crossroads, the displacement of local businesses and diverse local ownership is exactly the risk you would run by putting the ballpark there.
Cratedigger wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:12 pm
100% with you. I want surface lots downtown filled.
So why tear down active buildings to make that happen? Seems like the quickest path to the goal would be to build something on the sea of lots in EV.
Crossroads will fill in. Maybe not as quickly as you or I would hope for. But there is momentum
Precisely. The Crossroads will see high quality infill naturally and over time. This actually our one decent chance to infill the east part of the loop with anything resembling quality.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:59 am
Let’s just keep it boring and discuss the EV location. I’m sure the mayor won’t get his way anyway.
I don't understand continuing to mention what the mayor wants? He doesn't own this city, is that supposed to provide validation to your opinion or something?
Definitely great to bring baseball downtown for a litany of reasons. Even if there wasn't one business in that crossroads site, it's a bad location to utilize our current infrastructure like parking garages so we don't have to add more to support a ballpark. The fact that this area is a thriving and growing neighborhood just adds to that.
The mayor is one of the biggest decision makers involved but that's not why I mention it. I mention it because it's being considered whether you like it or not.
I have no doubt it's being considered, that is public knowledge. It's just a mistake and will negatively impact an already growing neighborhood and doesn't maximize the use of our established infrastructure.
Cratedigger wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:12 pm
100% with you. I want surface lots downtown filled.
So why tear down active buildings to make that happen? Seems like the quickest path to the goal would be to build something on the sea of lots in EV.
Crossroads will fill in. Maybe not as quickly as you or I would hope for. But there is momentum
Precisely. The Crossroads will see high quality infill naturally and over time. This actually our one decent chance to infill the east part of the loop with anything resembling quality.
I undestand your point there. However they also have said that “the EV would be very much developing organically and the only reason it’s not is because they’re holding it up for the Royals”. I don’t know what side is true at this point. Because if it is able to develop quickly on its own, I'd rather go Crossroads. If it can't, then I'm fine with putting Royals there.
