Downtown Baseball Stadium

[normalthings]

Navy Yard has been my favorite stadium adjacent redevelopment district. I would much rather build a bunch of 5-15 floor buildings out then wait decades to build it out with a bunch of towers.

[Riverite]

Navy Yard has been my favorite stadium adjacent redevelopment district. I would much rather build a bunch of 5-15 floor buildings out then wait decades to build it out with a bunch of towers.

I agree, there are plenty of other places for towers to go we just need something there because it’s such a. Dead zone

[DaveKCMO]

DaveKCMO, thinking of the future, since the City and VanTrust will control the East Village parcels, isn't now the time to set up a transportation funding district overlay and get it approved for a streetcar extension through the East Village at least to Charlotte?

If they do an extension they should really have long term plans on how to take it further east

Yeah, they do need to do that because I certainly won't be taking the lead on it (assuming you're talking about a TDD). Streetcar now has its own political momentum that didn't exist in 2011 and 2016, so it should be a lot easier now than it was then.

I wouldn't recommend starting that process yet because you have to define the transportation project and the cost before you even submit a petition to the circuit court. NextRail identified a potential project, but that study is so old now the cost estimate ($107 million) would not be reliable. Also, the 12th Street East corridor's fundamentals (job and residential density) haven't changed much. A new stadium is not reliable daily trip generator if you're following a federal process. As a result, anticipated federal funding was LOW.

And, yes, it needs to go a lot further east than Charlotte if 12th Street becomes an expansion corridor.

The frequent and free BRT service between Wyandotte and Prospect -- Prospect MAX -- will be past it's "useful life" of 12 years in 2031.

[Riverite]

Yeah, they do need to do that because I certainly won't be taking the lead on it (assuming you're talking about a TDD). Streetcar now has its own political momentum that didn't exist in 2011 and 2016, so it should be a lot easier now than it was then.

I wouldn't recommend starting that process yet because you have to define the transportation project and the cost before you even submit a petition to the circuit court. NextRail identified a potential project, but that study is so old now the cost estimate ($107 million) would not be reliable. Also, the 12th Street East corridor's fundamentals (job and residential density) haven't changed much. A new stadium is not reliable daily trip generator if you're following a federal process. As a result, anticipated federal funding was LOW.

And, yes, it needs to go a lot further east than Charlotte if 12th Street becomes an expansion corridor.

The frequent and free BRT service between Wyandotte and Prospect -- Prospect MAX -- will be past it's "useful life" of 12 years in 2031.

By the way thank you for spearheading transit so much in KC. Are you going to stay at the forefront and just not get involved in TDDs or are you planning on taking a step back?

[FangKC]

And, yes, it needs to go a lot further east than Charlotte if 12th Street becomes an expansion corridor.

The frequent and free BRT service between Wyandotte and Prospect -- Prospect MAX -- will be past it's "useful life" of 12 years in 2031.

How about a east-west 12th Street starter line from 12th and Jefferson to Independence and Woodland (KCUMB)?

[Riverite]

And, yes, it needs to go a lot further east than Charlotte if 12th Street becomes an expansion corridor.

The frequent and free BRT service between Wyandotte and Prospect -- Prospect MAX -- will be past it's "useful life" of 12 years in 2031.

How about a east-west 12th Street starter line from 12th and Jefferson to Independence and Woodland?

What street would you use to run it north?

[Riverite]

I want to see it run down eight street use the tunnel and stop just in the west bottoms for future expansion and stop at woodland on eighth to be run down independence for future expansion.

[FangKC]

The reason I had an end stop (for now) at 12th and Jefferson is because of HNTB, KC Southern, and all those new apartments around that area. If no extension to KC ever happens, this would then be a good last stop.

I don't think the 8th Street tunnel is in good enough condition to run a streetcar through it. The old west entrance is sealed up because of the interstate and the east entrance is inside a parking garage.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1055177 ... a=!3m1!1e3

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.104745 ... 384!8i8192

The extension past Jefferson on 12th will likely have a complex funding situation and uncertainty about how to pay for an extension to KCK. It's certainly a better option I'd think than running it over the Lewis & Clark Viaduct which would likely not capture any transportation district taxes.

From 12th and Jefferson, I'd run the track to Charlotte and turn north to 10th, then go north again at Woodland to Independence Avenue. There is an old Piggly Wiggly market building near that intersection that appears it could easily be converted to a streetcar maintenance shed. Until recently, it was a vehicle repair business.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1052195 ... a=!3m1!1e3

DaveKCMO is correct that the stadium will not be enough of a passenger-generator to sustain a line, so I've tried to pick routes that would serve an employment/employee base as well as stimulate development along the route and ending at a university where students and faculty could benefit.

[Riverite]

The reason I had an end stop (for now) at 12th and Jefferson is because of HNTB, KC Southern, and all those new apartments around that area. If no extension to KC ever happens, this would then be a good last stop.

I don't think the 8th Street tunnel is in good enough condition to run a streetcar through it. The old west entrance is sealed up because of the interstate and the east entrance is inside a parking garage.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1055177 ... a=!3m1!1e3

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.104745 ... 384!8i8192

The extension past Jefferson on 12th will likely have a complex funding situation and uncertainty about how to pay for an extension to KCK. It's certainly a better option I'd think than running it over the Lewis & Clark Viaduct which would likely not capture any transportation district taxes.

From 12th and Jefferson, I'd run the track to Charlotte and turn north to 10th, then go north again at Woodland to Independence Avenue. There is an old Piggly Wiggly market building near that intersection that appears it could easily be converted to a streetcar maintenance shed. Until recently, it was a vehicle repair business.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1052195 ... a=!3m1!1e3

DaveKCMO is correct that the stadium will not be enough of a passenger-generator to sustain a line, so I've tried to pick routes that would serve an employment/employee base as well as stimulate development along the route and ending at a university where students and faculty could benefit.

That makes sense would be a good spot, didn’t know the tunnel was that rough. Would be nice to see how it catalyzes development in Paseo heights and would be freat to have a stop only two blocks from aldis

[FangKC]

Yes, Aldi would be a great lower-cost option to Cosentino's for residents along the streetcar line.

Paseo West is in an development opportunity zone, so there is potential there for new investment and radical change in that neighborhood.

[Riverite]

Yes, Aldi would be a great lower-cost option to Cosentino's for residents along the streetcar line.

Paseo West is in an development opportunity zone, so there is potential there for new investment and radical change in that neighborhood.

I could see Paseo west being the new Westport, but more Westport when it was indie

[flyingember]

That makes sense would be a good spot, didn’t know the tunnel was that rough. Would be nice to see how it catalyzes development in Paseo heights and would be freat to have a stop only two blocks from aldis

Aside from condition, I'm fairly certain the tunnel angle would require moving the west loop first. Like I-35 is in the way.

[AlkaliAxel]

I’ve heard before the argument to put a Stadium at 18th Vine is that it can’t create much development there on its own without a stadium, but that East Village can develop without a stadium- but does this new* development recently spurring in Vine make it so that argument is moot for putting the stadium there?

[Riverite]

I’ve heard before the argument to put a Stadium at 18th Vine is that it can’t create much development there on its own without a stadium, but that East Village can develop without a stadium- but does this new* development recently spurring in Vine make it so that argument is moot for putting the stadium there?

They can both spur development without the stadium on their own. The stadium would accelerate it. Personally I think the only place it would truly spur development that doesn’t at the moment is Paseo gateway

[aknowledgeableperson]

Not necessarily. If the city owns it then the city can get stuck with a stadium it has to maintain. Look at how long Kemper sat mostly unused with the city owing money on it. Look at how the city backed P&L and owed money when the district didn’t earn enough.

We don’t want to own the stadium, the team should.

We want to issue the bonds using incentives from a district but not back them with anything outside the district that the team also owns. At the end of the day, the city should be net zero on the stadium itself and make all its money off the base taxes earned in bars and restaurants not owned by the team, hotel room nights and the like

The only incentives should be to give all stadium and district sales taxes to the team and maybe some parking revenue in city owned garages. If they don’t bring people to games they owe money on the bonds to make up the shortfall, not the city.

This incentivizes a district actually happening because it’s where the team makes it’s money and pays back the bonds.

Sorry about the late reply but had very limited access to the internet these past 10 days.
I believe you live in some sort of fantasy world if you think the team would own the stadium when the Chiefs and Sporting KC don't own the stadiums they play in. Owning the stadium and any surrounding district means the team becomes major risk takers and speculators, more so than just hopefully putting a winning team on the field. And any bonds issued would be revenue bonds that without city financial backing would definitely be rated as junk bonds and have an extremely high interest rate. If the Royals agreed to such a deal bankruptcy will likely occur.

[aknowledgeableperson]

There has already been hundreds of thousands spent behind the scenes by a group working on a downtown stadium. They’re not going to release a plan or site location until it’s a nice and neat package.

Like all stadiums it will be a public-private partnership but the ownership group will technically own it and operate it. The less city involvement the better.

Hopefully, they don’t overestimate the tax revenue this time.

Oh, I'm sure there are people spending money "planning" on a downtown stadium but they are probably facing the big #1 issue - how to pay for it. Even with low interest rates now it is hard to find a way to pay for it. Likely in the future interest rates will rise along with construction costs making how to pay for it even more costly than now.

[flyingember]

Sorry about the late reply but had very limited access to the internet these past 10 days.
I believe you live in some sort of fantasy world if you think the team would own the stadium when the Chiefs and Sporting KC don't own the stadiums they play in. Owning the stadium and any surrounding district means the team becomes major risk takers and speculators, more so than just hopefully putting a winning team on the field. And any bonds issued would be revenue bonds that without city financial backing would definitely be rated as junk bonds and have an extremely high interest rate. If the Royals agreed to such a deal bankruptcy will likely occur.

The new football stadium in LA is privately owned and funded.

[aknowledgeableperson]

The new football stadium in LA is privately owned and funded.

That's football not baseball. Big difference. Plus that stadium will house two teams not one.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

The new football stadium in LA is privately owned and funded.

That's football not baseball. Big difference. Plus that stadium will house two teams not one.

Plus…it’s L.A., the metro area hosts numerous large private companies and nearly 18.5 million people.

[rockchalk56]

“ Royals chairman John Sherman will also use this afternoon's press conference to touch on plans and hopes for a downtown stadium, I'm told by sources.

Big day for Kansas City.”
- Sam Mellinger