Drug Trade on Wyandotte in Wesport

[LenexatoKCMO]

The coppers were taking someone down at 39th and Main yesterday evening while I drove by - maybe he was one of your guys BrianT.

[briantsmith25]

Why do you have to do anything about it at all?  How is it a problem for you?  Are these drug users/sellers hurting you somehow?  If so, how?  If not, leave them alone - it's their bodies, after all. 

No wonder the cops don't care.  This is KCMO... they have far higher priorities than someone using/selling narcotics, like solving murders, rapes, and other violent crimes, of which we have many.  What a person does with their body, as long as it isn't being forced on others (and it sounds like it isn't) isn't our cops' priority for controlling.

To be more colloquial, "chill out."   :)

I could give a fuck less what they do to their bodies as long as they don't do it in my front yard.I live there. They don't. I pay taxes. Obviously they don't. Where do you think the cause of  most of the murders are? Drug sales. I'll be more than happy to send them your way if you don't mind!

Yeah the patrol cops are fuckin busy giving out seat belt tickets. I'm not asking for the SWAT team.

[briantsmith25]

The coppers were taking someone down at 39th and Main yesterday evening while I drove by - maybe he was one of your guys BrianT.

The cops were actually out pretty hard core yesterday. I was happy to see that.

[WSPanic]

Why do you have to do anything about it at all?  How is it a problem for you?  Are these drug users/sellers hurting you somehow?  If so, how?  If not, leave them alone - it's their bodies, after all.

So, he should wait until someone hurts him? If he's living at The Antlers and this is the Labor place on 39th/Wyandotte - he should most certainly feel threatened. I think it's a rational leap to make that if someone is dealing drugs, they are 1) armed and 2) unstable (if they happen to use too). I wouldn't want to have to walk in between these people and whatever they're doing just to get to Gomers.

Don't get me wrong - I love drugs as much as the next guy and support anyone's right to abuse themselves until the cows come home - but no way this guy should have to make it part of his life. If it's the dealer's personal choice, they should deal out of their own damn house.

[chrizow]

i have some friends that lived on wyandotte between 39th and westport rd. last year and it really seemed sketchy.  the neighbors were junkies and there were fairly blatant drug deals all the time just off 39th around the apartment buildings on the corner.  one time my friend heard what sounded like about 15-20 gunshots in rapid succession up at 39th and wyandotte, then, after some screeching tires, a car drove down wyandotte at about 50mph.  pretty f'ed up.  

i guess as folks are gentrifying hyde park, squier park, old northeast, westside, etc., areas close to westport are going downhill.  my friends' apartment was HUGE, had 3 bedrooms and rented for $650!

[briantsmith25]

i have some friends that lived on wyandotte between 39th and westport rd. last year and it really seemed sketchy.  the neighbors were junkies and there were fairly blatant drug deals all the time just off 39th around the apartment buildings on the corner.  one time my friend heard what sounded like about 15-20 gunshots in rapid succession up at 39th and wyandotte, then, after some screeching tires, a car drove down wyandotte at about 50mph.  pretty f'ed up.  

i guess as folks are gentrifying hyde park, squier park, old northeast, westside, etc., areas close to westport are going downhill.  my friends' apartment was HUGE, had 3 bedrooms and rented for $650!

95% of the people that live on Wyandotte really are good folk. Everybody that lives in my building are extra cool. (It's only a 6 plex). I'm not sure where the guys that I'm talking about live.(if they live anywhere at all). The Santa Maria can be a little sketchy, but the Alcazar is a damn mess.

[WSPanic]

I lived on that corner around 1996-1997 (Santa Maria). When I lived there, the bread company was still running out of that building and that side of the neighborhood was pretty quiet. Never really felt threatened going west. The Alcazar, on the other hand, seemed to be where all of the action was back then.

Great apartment though. It had just been redone - refinished hardwoods, new appliances and it was $335/month including utilities for a one bedroom. It was great - until the guy next door set himself and the building on fire freebasing. OK, it was a little sketchy.

[tompendergast]

I could give a fuck less what they do to their bodies as long as they don't do it in my front yard.I live there. They don't. I pay taxes. Obviously they don't.

If they're actually in your front yard, that's misdemeanor trespassing, and I'd call the cops to report that, because it actually is encroaching on a property/liberty interest.  It doesn't sound, though, like the people you're talking about actually are within your curtilage.  If they're on the street or in a public alleyway, however, which seemed to be what you initially indicated, then my original proposition stands. Chill out.

Where do you think the cause of  most of the murders are? Drug sales.

Actually, the cause of drug-related murders is the illegalization of drugs itself; there weren't drug-related murders before the drugs were made illegal.  Since drug sellers can't sue other people when their drugs are stolen or they get ripped off, they have no choice but to resort to violence (sort of like Al Capone and the other bootlegging gangsters during prohibition; once prohibition ended, they stopped existing).  As long as you leave these kinds of people alone, however, you're likely in no danger - certianly less than if you actually did interfere with their enterprise.  Did you stop to consider that by breaking up one of these enterprises, they might come after you (seeing as they can't sue you and all)??

I'll be more than happy to send them your way if you don't mind!

I live downtown on Quality Hill.  I've seen drug deals go on in Case Park at night, and I've seen people using drugs on the street throughout downtown at night.  Do I do anything about it?  No, because it's none of my business.

So, he should wait until someone hurts him?

The only chance he stands at getting hurt is if he interferes with their enterprise, because they can't sue him for commercial frustration or something of the like.

he should most certainly feel threatened. I think it's a rational leap to make that if someone is dealing drugs, they are 1) armed and 2) unstable (if they happen to use too). I wouldn't want to have to walk in between these people and whatever they're doing just to get to Gomers.

They'll only use those arms on him if he doesn't mind his own business.  In the meantime, though, fight for the legalization of all drugs.

Don't get me wrong - I love drugs as much as the next guy and support anyone's right to abuse themselves until the cows come home - but no way this guy should have to make it part of his life. If it's the dealer's personal choice, they should deal out of their own damn house.

He doesn't have to make it a part of his life.  If he chooses to mind his own business, it won't be a part of his life.

[briantsmith25]

If they're actually in your front yard, that's misdemeanor trespassing, and I'd call the cops to report that, because it actually is encroaching on a property/liberty interest.  It doesn't sound, though, like the people you're talking about actually are within your curtilage.  If they're on the street or in a public alleyway, however, which seemed to be what you initially indicated, then my original proposition stands. Chill out.
Actually, the cause of drug-related murders is the illegalization of drugs itself; there weren't drug-related murders before the drugs were made illegal.  Since drug sellers can't sue other people when their drugs are stolen or they get ripped off, they have no choice but to resort to violence (sort of like Al Capone and the other bootlegging gangsters during prohibition; once prohibition ended, they stopped existing).  As long as you leave these kinds of people alone, however, you're likely in no danger - certianly less than if you actually did interfere with their enterprise.  Did you stop to consider that by breaking up one of these enterprises, they might come after you (seeing as they can't sue you and all)??
I live downtown on Quality Hill.  I've seen drug deals go on in Case Park at night, and I've seen people using drugs on the street throughout downtown at night.  Do I do anything about it?  No, because it's none of my business.
The only chance he stands at getting hurt is if he interferes with their enterprise, because they can't sue him for commercial frustration or something of the like.
They'll only use those arms on him if he doesn't mind his own business.  In the meantime, though, fight for the legalization of all drugs.
He doesn't have to make it a part of his life.  If he chooses to mind his own business, it won't be a part of his life.

You're an idiot.

[chrizow]

while i support legalization and people minding their own business, isn't it your business whether crazed/armed/high people are loitering directly outside your window, whether you "own" that property or not?  i understand that, in a perfect world, all this might be ok, but i think briantsmith is entirely justified in being upset that this activity is going on outside his apartment building.  are you aware that many drug buyers rob/kill people for drug money?  i wouldn't want these folks congregating outside my home, whether i owned the sidewalk or not.  

[briantsmith25]

They may not be in my front yard. But I could open up my window and take a piss on them. (which I've contemplated doing)

[WSPanic]

They'll only use those arms on him if he doesn't mind his own business.

Yeah, but couldn't walking too close - or looking at someone the wrong way - or just being there - be perceived as not minding his own business?

Kind of risky proposition to assume your minding your own business when the end result could be, you know, death.

[chrizow]

Yeah, but couldn't walking too close - or looking at someone the wrong way - or just being there - be perceived as not minding his own business?

Kind of risky proposition to assume your minding your own business when the end result could be, you know, death.

yeah, methinks tompendergast knows very little about the mindset and stability of crack heads/dealers

[Appraiser]

Tompendergast you need to move to the 3900 block of Wyandotte.

[tompendergast]

You're an idiot.

Ah, so we're resorting to ad hominem attacks, now?  Interesting.

isn't it your business whether crazed/armed/high people are loitering directly outside your window, whether you "own" that property or not?  

If he had proof that they were violently insane or armed (with illegal weapons, of course), such as them attacking him or actually threatening him in some manner, that would be an entirely different matter.  All briantsmith25 indicated, however, was that the people in question were either using or selling drugs.

are you aware that many drug buyers rob/kill people for drug money?

If they did that to him, I certainly would support calling the authorities.  From what he said, however, they were minding their own business using/selling their drugs.

They may not be in my front yard. But I could open up my window and take a piss on them. (which I've contemplated doing)

Then they justifiably could call the authorities on you, because you would be encroaching on their liberty/person without their consent.

Yeah, but couldn't walking too close - or looking at someone the wrong way - or just being there - be perceived as not minding his own business?

Kind of risky proposition to assume your minding your own business when the end result could be, you know, death.

That's a mere assumption.  Beginning criminal prosecutions - a truly serious matter, for those of you who aren't familiar with the stigma attached - NEVER should be based on assumptions.  If it were otherwise, we no longer would be living in liberty, but at the whim of anyone who wished to make an assumption.

yeah, methinks tompendergast knows very little about the mindset and stability of crack heads/dealers

Then you think wrong.  I've met dozens of crack-cocaine dealers and users.  I've defended them.  I've listened to their stories.  I've spoken with them at length about all of these matters.  I thoroughly understand both their mindset and the way they live.  They're human beings like everyone else, and have the same fundamental desires as everyone else.  For the most part, they just want to be left alone.  When they carry weapons, it's only to defend against someone interfering with their enterprise, because - as I noted before - they can't go to court as in normal businesses and sue the interferor.

briantsmith25 started this thread in order to ask advice about what to do.  My advice is simply to relax.  If you don't agree, that's fine, but that's my advice.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I am with Panic and Chrizow on this one - I am all for legalized sales, but in a nice, licensed drugstore where the sale is regulated to ensure that ID's are checked by sober clerks, clean drugs are sold, and where people will be cut off if they have a problem - not when they are sold by a cracked out dude out on the corner with a pistol in his wasteband and a willingness to sell to anyone with ten dollars in their pocket regardless of age or condition.  Just because I feel drugs should be legalized doesn't mean I have to approve of the shady orgnized crime operations currently pushing them.  

[Brodees]

As long as you leave these kinds of people alone, however, you're likely in no danger - certianly less than if you actually did interfere with their enterprise.  Did you stop to consider that by breaking up one of these enterprises, they might come after you (seeing as they can't sue you and all)??

That is a dangerous attitude.  You've made it clear that these people operate outside of the law in order to exact their ideas of justice.  So why should this person, being an innocent bystander, willingly shoulder a greater risk of being injured or killed should an armed confrontation break out near his residence simply because the danger is "certainly less than if [he] actually did interfere with their interprise"?  The grave risk is still there and it's greater than any citizen should have to accept.

[WSPanic]

are you aware that many drug buyers rob/kill people for drug money?

If they did that to him, I certainly would support calling the authorities.  From what he said, however, they were minding their own business using/selling their drugs

As an alleged officer of the court, why would you support involving the authorities on one crime (assault, or whatever), but not another (using/selling drugs)?

[KCMax]

I am with Panic and Chrizow on this one - I am all for legalized sales, but in a nice, licensed drugstore where the sale is regulated to ensure that ID's are checked by sober clerks, clean drugs are sold, and where people will be cut off if they have a problem - not when they are sold by a cracked out dude out on the corner with a pistol in his wasteband and a willingness to sell to anyone with ten dollars in their pocket regardless of age or condition.  Just because I feel drugs should be legalized doesn't mean I have to approve of the shady orgnized crime operations currently pushing them. 

Well said. That sums up my feelings. I think briantsmith should definitely call in law enforcement. Open dealing of drugs is certainly not anything urban residents should have to "deal with".

[tompendergast]

As an alleged officer of the court, why would you support involving the authorities on one crime (assault, or whatever), but not another (using/selling drugs)?

Hehe, I'm not an officer of the court yet... give me until the end of September (hopefully!).

The two crimes you're talking about are very, very different.  Assault is a crime that clearly encroaches on another person's interests in their own liberty without that person's consent.  Using or selling drugs, however, is not the same thing at all - it only implicates one's own body, rather than the liberty and/or body of another.  When a drug user uses drugs, he consents to himself doing so.  When a drug seller sells drugs, it is a consensual transaction between the seller and the buyer.  Those don't implicate the nonconsensual liberty/person/property interests of another, but rather only the participants.  Assault, however, is an entier other matter: the victim does not consent.  That makes assault different and - if serious enough - makes it warrant intervention by the authorities.  A drug sale where the buyer(s) and seller(s) consent is just two (or more) people minding their own business.

So, whereas I wholeheartedly support maintaining assault as a crime (although I'd like to see it dealt with differently), I believe that drug prohibition is wrong and that no one - in any setting whatsoever - ever should be prosecuted in any form for the mere use/purchase/sale of narcotic drugs.