Old KC Street names

Post by **bahua** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:52 am

Hey folks, I was just looking at a map of KC, dated 1869, and found that the North-South streets were called almost exactly what they are now: Broad Way(two words), Central, Wyandotte, Baltimore, Main, Grand, Walnut, McGee, Oak(called Laurel then), Locust, Cherry(called Hackberry then), Holmes(called Holme), Charlotte(which, south of 10th, became Gay St), Campbell(called Perry), Harrison, and Troost(called Kane). However, most of the East-West streets(which are now mostly numbered) up to 20th actually had names. Here's how they were lined up:
20th - Adeline
19th - Amelia
18th - Catharina
17th - Gertrude
16th - Milton
15th - Mobillion
14th - Manard
13th - Allen
12th - Ottowa
11th - Chestnut - Choteau(west of Main)
10th - Shawnee - Lancaster(west of Main)
9th - Cherokee - Cumberland(west of Main)
8th - Ross
7th - Court

What I want to know is why they changed them. That'd be cool if they still had names, I think.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/pmhtml/panmap.html

The map can be found by hitting Missouri on the USmap, and selecting one of the two KC maps.

/edit
Some of you might recognize this from the kcgeek forums, about a year ago, but I thought the idea was more appropriate here.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:04 am

i like the idea of naming the east west streets, at least downtown. It would be a cool way to distinguish downtown from the rest of the city.

MidtownGrrl · Post by **MidtownGrrl** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:34 am

Having numbered streets is an asset, IMO. As someone who is not from around here originally, it is so much easier to find things when half of the streets are numbered.

Post by **dangerboy** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:42 am

I definitely love having numbered streets and good grid system. It makes it so much easier to find my around than if we were an old eastern city with no grid and no logical naming system.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:45 am

Good point, Grrl. In Denver, the named streets are laid out logically. They are in alphabetical order, with two steets for each letter. It is further broken down by name type, such as plants/trees/ then cities, then somthing else. Not sure what. It makes it pretty easy to get around. a good friend of mine lives on Monaco. I know Monaco is the second category after plants/trees, then down the alphabet to "m". Its a great system, and very easy to figure out. We do a pretty good job here, except for Wyco, which has north/south streets as numbered ones. It makes sense from their perspective, because their 1st st. is at the river, just as on the MO side. For visitors, tho, it can be a bit confusing.

San Antonio is, but far the screwiest city ever. The streets change names as they travel through different suburbs. Add to that the fact that San Antonio has grown to sorround some suburbs, and the street names can change back to the original San Antonio name. A street can change names 2 or three times in just a short distance. Its all very confusing!

Post by **bahua** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:56 am

St. Louis, Boston, Milwaukee... yeah, they're all tough to get the hang of, but people do. I don't think the ease at which a stranger can navigate your city is of any real importance. I've always considered numbered(or especially lettered) streets to be a kind of cop-out, from actually commemorating something with the street. Street names give the city character, while numbered streets are dismal, boring, and don't indicate anything about the town but sterility, in my opinion.

For anyone interested, you can download the full-sized image from my site here. It's huge, and compressed all the way down to an 8000x6000px jpeg.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:24 am

Kind of off topic but I'd like a huge map of the old streetcar lines...if I could get a hard copy of that, I always thought that would be cool art in a house.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:20 am

dangerboy wrote:I definitely love having numbered streets and good grid system. It makes it so much easier to find my around than if we were an old eastern city with no grid and no logical naming system.

Grid systems are a bit boring.

KCDowntown · Post by **KCDowntown** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:41 am

I think in urbanized areas (i.e. not the suburbs with their screwed up roads), streets that don't follow the grid are catalyst for growth. Especially at the confluence of one or two other major streets.

Around these streets are usually other streets that are very short. This makes access from point A to point B quicker and easier then on the typical grid pattern.

Easy access makes the area more attractive to walk in --> more pedestrians makes area safer

Takes the following examples:

Times Square in NYC (Broadway and 7th? Ave)
Westport Rd in KC
Old Petticoat Lane in KC

Times Square obviously speaks for itself.

Westport Rd is one street that hasn't befallen a lot of deterioration since KC heyday. The Westport district is now centered on it. Westport Rd at Broadway is busy the majority of the day.

Old Petticoat Lane was once the center of shopping in KC. This area is located where 11th street west of Main isn't aligned with 11th street east of Main.

Hopefully, an example of this will occur along Southwest Blvd in the Crossroads. Already, it is the location of many established businesses; such as Manny's, Architecture Salvage, Skates Belting, some book binder, Shiraz, IPAS. Plus, many new businesses are located on this street - Lulu's, Team Office, the forthcoming Coffee Girls, Curious Sofa, the BBQ place. I think when the H.D. Lee Building and other freight house district buildings are turned into apts future this area will really take off.

KCDowntown

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:50 am

Changing the names of streets is a very expensive proposition because it requires all businesses to reprint their forms, envelopes, stationary, and business cards. Maps and phone directories have to be updated as well. The city has to invest thousands in new street signs. Buildings and freeway exits with signage have to be changed, etc.

The reason numbered streets remain so popular (and streets with common names like Main, Grand, Broadway, Oak, Maple, etc) is because sign manufacturers can sell those sign names at a lower cost to many cities. There is a larger volume in which to spread the cost of production. There is not a lot of demand for specific street names that honor local people (like George Brett St.). When cities rename streets to honor certain people these days, it is usually a short street or road that won't involve a lot of signage changes.

The other reason for numbered streets is because of mailing addresses. For example, 1400 Main is at the corner of 14th and Main streets. An apartment building at 910 Pennsylvania is near 9th Street. Having street addresses done this way helps people figure out where addresses are quickly.

This cost factor can be overcome over time by gradually phasing in the name change, so businesses don't have to throw out already existing supplies. Instead, they change to the new name when they run out of old supplies.

Sixth Avenue in New York City is named "Avenue of the Americas," yet most New Yorkers still call it Sixth Avenue after decades.

However, since Kansas City started out as a French settlement, I think it would be cool to have all the streets in the River Market; Columbus/Garrison Sq. neighborhood; and the West Bottoms named after early settlers, French explorers, and governors:

Rue Francois; Rue Auguste; Rue Pierre; Rue Cyprian; Rue Trudeau; Rue Drouillard; Rue Jean Baptiste; Rue Charbonneau; Rue Toussaint; Rue Guinotte; Rue de Benedict Roux; Rue De Smet; Rue Bernard Donnelly; Rue Fournais; Rue Rivard; Rue Cavagnial; Rue Louisiana; Rue Vaudreuil; Rue de Orleans; Rue de Bourgmont; Rue de Canses; Rue Frontenac; Rue Marquette; Rue de Joliet; Rue La Sueur; Rue Chanute; Rue de Prudhomme; Rue Berenice Menard; Rue Sublette; Rue Lafayette; and Rue Fontenelle; etc.

After all, until 1840, "Chez les Canses" was almost 100 percent French. This would be one way of separating the those areas from the rest of the street grid. There are approximately 29 streets in the River Market and Columbus/Garrison Square neighborhoods. Those areas and the West Bottoms are cut-off from the rest of the city by the river and freeways. It wouldn't be that hard to rename those streets, since it's a small area.

The City Market would be referred to as Chez le Marche', and Columbus and Garrison squares would be La Place de Columbus and La Place de Garrison.

Having charming French street names may help create more interest in building new housing in the River Market, since people would be enchanted by having those addresses. French-style townhomes could be built on vacant parcels. It would also honor early settlers, and make tourists more aware of our early French origins.

The City should also consider having more streets named after some of our native sons and well-known residents:

(Jazz) Charlie Parker Blvd.; Jay McShann Way; Count Basie Place; Oran Page Ave.; Andy Kirk Parkway; Mary Lou Williams Way; Bennie Moten Blvd.; Clarence Love Lane.; Big Joe Turner Trafficway; George Lee Place; Julia Lee Lane; Jimmy Rushing Rd.; Woodie Walder Way; "Baby" Lovett Ave.; Pepper Neely Place; Bettye Miller Rd.; Milt Abel Ave.; and Lester Young St.;

(Sports) "Casey" Stengel St.; Satchel Paige Terrace; Buck O'Neil Ave.; Len Dawson Drive; George Brett Blvd.; Jackie Robinson Blvd.; and Hank Stram Ave.;

(Arts) Burt Bacharach Rd.; Oleta Adams St.; Walt Disney Dr.; Ginger Rogers Rd.; Dee Wallace Ave.; Robert Altman Way; Wallace Beery St.; Joan Crawford Rd.; Jean Harlow St.; Ed Asner Avenue; William Powell Place; Chris Cooper St.; Virgil Thomon Way; Thomas Hart Benton Ave.; Calvin Trillin Terrace; and Walter Cronkite Blvd;

(Western Explorers) Wyatt Earp Rd.; Jim Bridger Blvd; Wild Bill Hickok St.; Alexander Majors Ave.; and Andrew Drips Dr.;

(Others) Joyce Hall Blvd.; Arthur Bryant Ave.; Ollie Gates Rd.; Abraham Fonda St.; Frederic Remington Rd.; Nell Donnelly Dr.; Russell Stover St.; and Sally Rand Rd.

The City should also name another street after Kersey Coates. There used to be Kersey Coates Drive along the bluff above the West Bottoms, but it was taken out when the freeway was constructed.

Post by **bahua** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:07 am

Street names are changed all the time, but that wasn't what I was suggesting. I was simply asking why they ever changed the streets from the given names they had. If it was, in fact, in the name of ease of find addresses, then I find that very disappointing. That would be great if Kansas City had such distinctive street names as Adeline and Mobillion. But as it is, the distictiveness has been forsaken for the convenience of people who don't even live here.

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