KCRag Forum

TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:21 pm You'd think the whole "benefits outweigh the risks" thing would help ease people over but nope. Guess they now believe that every country in the world is in on this vaccine turning you into a muskrat or something.

Every country in the world understands the risk involved and some people just don’t want to risk it. I won’t defend the conspiracy folks who refuse to take it, but I understand why some regular folks are hesitant not knowing long term effects. Just spoke with a friend last night who wants to get pregnant soon and is worried about getting it and it causing any complications with that process. She had a hell of a time the first time. I understand her hesitation and don’t think she should be shamed.

Women who are pregnant, trying to get pregnant, or currently breastfeeding are advised to talk to their doctors before receiving the vaccination because I don't think it has been extensively tested in pregnant women yet. That is a reasonable cause for caution that isn't really applicable to the general population of anti-vax people.

No one was shaming pregnant people, you brought it up.

At this point, if the long term effects screw me up, whatever. If it means there is a nice good world for future generations to live in, I'm all for it. This is such selfish behavior from everyone around who isn't in a non studied personal situation.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:46 am Just spoke with a friend last night who wants to get pregnant soon and is worried about getting it and it causing any complications with that process. She had a hell of a time the first time. I understand her hesitation and don’t think she should be shamed.

There's zero reason for someone to be insulted for being concerned.

Even the CDC says basically what you put though, they say to be cautious. They're trying to gather the information to give better answers.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... nancy.html

After all, there's all sorts of bad drug results relevant to pregnancy that didn't show up as a direct cause for some time.

The counterpoint is of course what does getting Covid itself do to pregnancy? Does an asymptomatic case cause bigger problems? I don't have any idea, but it seems like a good question to ask as well.
And not just in women, but men. Sperm counts caused by potential persistent fevers would be of note here.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... fects.html

You know what the single biggest missed point in this entire conversation is?

im2kull wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:41 pm You know what the single biggest missed point in this entire conversation is?

I’m all ears

I bet it’s the sound of the horse being beaten by either side.

im2kull wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:41 pm You know what the single biggest missed point in this entire conversation is?

That it's multiple conversations and trying to make a single unified point is a fools errand?

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:57 am

im2kull wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:41 pm You know what the single biggest missed point in this entire conversation is?

I’m all ears

All variants of the Covid vaccine are experimental.

Volunteering to take an experimental vaccine means you have zero legal recourse for anything even remotely related to the vaccine. No claims can be made whether private, civil, or criminal. Even something as minute as a billing error is unchallengeable. You'll be hard pressed to find something else in today's world that results in the same forgoing of your right to remedy.

Side note - Too many people are misunderstanding and minimizing the difference between an emergency use authorization, and FDA approval.

im2kull wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:22 am

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:57 am

im2kull wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:41 pm You know what the single biggest missed point in this entire conversation is?

I’m all ears

All variants of the Covid vaccine are experimental.

Volunteering to take an experimental vaccine means you have zero legal recourse for anything even remotely related to the vaccine. No claims can be made whether private, civil, or criminal. Even something as minute as a billing error is unchallengeable. You'll be hard pressed to find something else in today's world that results in the same forgoing of your right to remedy.

Side note - Too many people are misunderstanding and minimizing the difference between an emergency use authorization, and FDA approval.

That was the same argument I recently presented. I too was told it was a ridiculous stance...

Wow, im2kull confidently blustering about something he doesn't understand, now I've seen everything!

The manufacturers of the covid vaccines have been granted immunity from civil liability under the PREP Act (invoked last year). They are not immune from criminal prosecution if they commit a crime (although, let's be fair, this is America, so nothing will happen to them anyway, but that has nothing to do with the vaccines' "experimental" status). Their immunity does not extend to "billing errors." Their immunity does not cover what the PREP Act defines as "willful misconduct." It's a high level of immunity, but it isn't blanket immunity for any harm the vaccines might ever cause under any circumstances.

Is it great to give big companies immunity from liability? Of course not (although, while this level of immunity is not super common, you would be surprised how often you limit or waive liability in your routine interactions with big companies and institutions -- that's bad too, but nobody really seems to care). But it is worth bearing in mind that the vaccines went through all the same trials that any other drug or vaccine must clear before obtaining approval and they've since been administered to millions of people. They've already obtained full approval in other countries around the world. So it's not enough to just fearmonger over Pfizer's, Moderna's, or J&J's immunity from liability. You still have to ask, liability for what? The answer, whatever it is, is not "billing errors."

Immunity from liability is what happens when someone wants Tort reform due to costs increasing because lawsuits became common.

Did people (in general) really think that the end result would be stricter business regulation?

phuqueue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:57 pm Wow, im2kull confidently blustering about something he doesn't understand, now I've seen everything!

The manufacturers of the covid vaccines have been granted immunity from civil liability..

... It's a high level of immunity, but it isn't blanket immunity for any harm the vaccines might ever cause under any circumstances.

Since you don't seem to understand the ramifications of this situation let me enlighten you;

NO Disability of any kind even remotely related to the vaccine will ever be granted for voluntarily taking an experimental, non-FDA approved injection.

If you suffer an adverse reaction, you will not have recourse. You will not be compensated.

If you die, your insurer has no obligation to pay out your life insurance policy.

YOU cannot touch the company for any reason, ever. A prosecutor somewhere, someday may be able to for mass criminal matters.. but that's NOT your call and will NOT restore your benefits, abilities, or life.

Cool, but long covid is an actual thing that actually exists and is expensive to deal with both in monetary and human cost. Other viruses are the things that actually cause things like cancer, not their vaccines.

Not sure which episode of Alex Jones you're pulling your info from, but lol. "Disability" is a pretty broad topic, but in general, disability benefits will be paid out based on whether or not you meet the definition of "disabled," not how you got that way. If you suffer an adverse reaction from a vaccine covered under the PREP Act (which, again, only applies when invoked by HHS and only covers the vaccines specified by HHS), you can pursue compensation through the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (granted that this fund rejects most claims), and if your injury is a result of the pharma's "willful misconduct," then you can pursue your claim against the company directly. The life insurance one is a real laugher -- as a general rule of thumb, your life insurer is always obliged to pay your claim unless you committed fraud in obtaining your policy. Even suicide is covered if you are outside of the contestability period (one or two years, depending on state, from policy inception). There is no "experimental vaccine" exception. And to the extent that you think any of your statements have blanket application to any "experimental, non-FDA appproved injection," I don't really know what to say except that, uh, they don't. I welcome you to actually read the PREP Act, which I linked in my previous post, if you're interested in having any idea what the hell you're even talking about for once.

im2kull wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:21 am NO Disability of any kind even remotely related to the vaccine will ever be granted for voluntarily taking an experimental, non-FDA approved injection.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3601710/

You really didn't think that statement through

The statistical likelihood that you will die, or have long-term health effects (including disability) are much more likely from getting COVID than getting any vaccine -- even this experimental one. Not only has COVID been found to do damage to one's respiratory system, it has been linked to long-term damage to the heart, circulatory system, kidneys, liver, and brain.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... w%20weeks.

flyingember wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:50 am

im2kull wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:21 am NO Disability of any kind even remotely related to the vaccine will ever be granted for voluntarily taking an experimental, non-FDA approved injection.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3601710/

You really didn't think that statement through

Clinical research subjects participating in an actual clinic trial for monetary compensation, is vastly different than citizens seeking and taking an experimental vaccine of their own free will. Any halfway decent attorney would find a million different ways to undercut any claim for compensation for the latter.

COVID-19 vaccines are available every Tuesday through Friday at the City of Kansas City, Mo., Health Department’s three COVID-19 vaccine clinics. In Missouri, everyone over the age of 16 can receive the vaccine.

The clinics are open from 9:30 a.m. to noon and 1 p.m. to 4 p.m.

They're located at:

Smith-Hale Middle School (old Hickman Mills H.S.)
9010A Old Santa Fe Road
KCMO 64138

Former Gen-X store
3100 Prospect Ave.
KCMO 64128

Bruce R. Watkins Cultural Center
3700 Blue Parkway
KCMO 64130

You can schedule an appointment at kcmo.gov/coronavirus or call 311.

Federal Pharmacy Partners

Selected retail pharmacies such as Walmart, Sam’s Club, and Health Mart are now providing vaccines to eligible persons through the Federal Retail Pharmacy Program for COVID-19. This program allows individuals to get vaccinated at any location regardless of residency. Learn more about the program.

Walmart

Sam's Club

Health Mart

Mass Vaccination Events

Together, the Missouri National Guard, Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services (DHSS) and State Emergency Management Agency (SEMA) are hosting mass vaccination events in our region (Region A) and throughout the state. You must be eligible to register.

HCA Midwest Health Community Vaccination Clinics

HCA Midwest Health, along with state and local officials, are also providing vaccines to Missourians. View available locations.

Truman Medical Centers

You can register online or call (816)404-CARE to sign up for TMC’s vaccine waiting list. You must be a Missouri resident and meet eligibility.

St. Luke's Health System

St. Luke’s will contact existing eligible patients. No signup has been created.

Other vaccination clinics:

Operation Safe Vaccination Clinic

Clay County Public Health Center is a part of Operation Safe, working with Cerner, local hospitals and cities to host mass vaccination clinics in Clay County.

The only way to be offered an appointment at an Operation Safe vaccination event is by filling out the Clay County Vaccine Interest Form*. If you have already done so, there is no need to submit again.

https://www.kcmo.gov/city-hall/departme ... oronavirus

KC CARE Health Center

If you are in a priority tier and live in Missouri, please email the following information:

Your name
Phone number
Job Title
Email: covidvaccine@kccare.org

Many Walgreens and CVS pharmacies on the Missouri side of the Metro have vaccine. Call to inquire.

In Kansas, use the vaccine finder tool.

https://www.kansasvaccine.gov/160/Find-My-Vaccine