KCRag Forum

aknowledgeableperson wrote:Well, there is a new Pope. A Jesuit from Argentina that is from outside of the church hierarchy. Does bring hope that there will be substantial changes coming to the Roman Catholic Church, over time.

Sorry to be crass, but how much time can he really take to change things? The new pope is 76 years old.

KCMax wrote:

aknowledgeableperson wrote:Well, there is a new Pope. A Jesuit from Argentina that is from outside of the church hierarchy. Does bring hope that there will be substantial changes coming to the Roman Catholic Church, over time.

Sorry to be crass, but how much time can he really take to change things? The new pope is 76 years old.

So, is a non-European born to Italian parents that big of a deal? Perhaps it is. I am encouraged that he is pro-contraception, though his anti-gay stances are pretty startling. From his wiki entry, he is basically FOX News' worst nightmare. If he were one way or another, they could compartmentalize him. Instead, he has some more liberal sentiments, some more socialist sentiments, and what sound like some very hardcore conservative sentiments. I have read nothing to make me believe that he has a background suited to be an agent of financial reform or of reforms regarding the abuse scandals. Overall, it sounds like the Cardinals just voted for the guy who came in second place when they last voted. So, essentially nothing has happened in the last 8 years to make them look to a different pool of candidates.

KCMax wrote: The new pope is 76 years old.

So? As you will find out as you get older age is more like a number. Does he have a quarter century of time as a pope? Likely not but it would be safe to say he should have 8 to 10 years (a USA president has a max of eight) and in that time some change should come.

He is not going to shake up the church that much but hopefully get the changes proposed in Vatican II back on track. A liberal he is not but he does bring a different background to the job.

Has Benedict set a new precident by retiring before "retiring," or will he just be remembered as the guy who ran from a bunch of problems that he was not equipped to handle? I imagine that if he is the only Pope for hundreds of years to retire, history will not be kind as to the reasons why. However, I think there is an opportunity for Francis to continue a new path of greater humility and foster a realization that a 99 year-old guy may not be in the best position to lead billions of people. What happens if a Pope gets a degenerative mental disorder? For a religion based on loving one another, holding on to such a position of power until death seems like one of the most selfish things a person could do.

Pardon my ignorance, but does the pope really lead anyone? Seems to me he sets official church policy, but most individual catholics do whatever they wanted to do anyway.

Does President Obama really lead anyone? Answer that and you have your answer.

aknowledgeableperson wrote:Does President Obama really lead anyone? Answer that and you have your answer.

Then a more appropriate question is if the Pope can put people in jail or kill them with a drone.

I think history has decisively settled the question of whether the Catholic Church can have people killed

mean wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but does the pope really lead anyone? Seems to me he sets official church policy, but most individual catholics do whatever they wanted to do anyway.

To have a better answer the CC is a $170B business in just the US alone. That is according to an article in MSN Money.

The Economist estimates that 57% of the church's U.S. spending went to Catholic health care networks, with an additional 28% to colleges, 6% to day-to-day operations at local parishes and dioceses, and 2.7% to national charities.
The church is also the largest charitable organization in the U.S. Its main group, Catholic Charities USA, along with its subsidiaries, reportedly has a paid staff of more than 65,000 and serves more than 10 million people. The Economist says it distributed nearly $5 billion in aid to the poor in 2010, with nearly two-thirds of those funds coming from state, local and federal government agencies.

Additional info. The pope is also considered a head-of-state in that The Vatican is an independent state

aknowledgeableperson wrote:

mean wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but does the pope really lead anyone? Seems to me he sets official church policy, but most individual catholics do whatever they wanted to do anyway.

To have a better answer the CC is a $170B business in just the US alone. That is according to an article in MSN Money.

The Economist estimates that 57% of the church's U.S. spending went to Catholic health care networks, with an additional 28% to colleges, 6% to day-to-day operations at local parishes and dioceses, and 2.7% to national charities.
The church is also the largest charitable organization in the U.S. Its main group, Catholic Charities USA, along with its subsidiaries, reportedly has a paid staff of more than 65,000 and serves more than 10 million people. The Economist says it distributed nearly $5 billion in aid to the poor in 2010, with nearly two-thirds of those funds coming from state, local and federal government agencies.

Additional info. The pope is also considered a head-of-state in that The Vatican is an independent state

Planet Money on NPR actually just had a segment about the Catholic Church as a business entity. The Pope, while he decides Church matters, does not have much to do with finance, leaving it instead to the diocese level. The segment asked business consultants how they would improve the church's finances and one thing they said was to consolidate procurement to utilize the church's massive leverage and buying power, saving the Church potentially billions of dollars.

I think you're probably right, 8 years is enough time to enact change if he wants to, and Ratzinger was fairly old and lasted 8 years. Will be interesting to see what kind of direction he leads the church, it sounds like he's more of the social welfare Catholic as others have suggested.

Pity we aren't all so nice to each other.

mean wrote:Pity we aren't all so nice to each other.

Shut up or I'll kill you.

DID POPE FRANCIS SECRETLY ENDORSE CIVIL UNIONS FOR GAYS?

As CNN reported this week, Marcelo Marquez, an activist and a former theology professor at a Catholic college, claims that the pope, formerly known as Jorge Mario Bergoglio, phoned him in 2010 to tell him about his views on civil unions.

“He told me. … ‘I’m in favor of gay rights and in any case, I also favor civil unions for homosexuals, but I believe that Argentina is not yet ready for a gay marriage law,’” Marquez told CNN.

I did not see that coming.

Pretty sure that's fake, but I read it with great interest. Would certainly be a first.

The website in the article isn't even his website. Looks to be a hoax. But, interesting to think about.

Yeah, looks like a hoax, although the jaded skeptic in me sees these uber-rich megachurch pastors and wonders if they're not just wily atheists rolling in the cash of believers. I can't help but feel like if they were sincere, they wouldn't accumulate wealth, they'd give it all to the poor.

Unfortunately, on that circuit, wealth is proof of God's blessing. What do you think all those folks are prayiing for?