KCRag Forum

One station built on the north side of the terminal garage, one stop at a new economy lot, one stop at the rental car facility. A maintenance yard would be constructed near Terminal C.

Map is blurry but shows switch’s and individual tracks. I think the train yard would have to be elevated.

So it looks like the APM would go into the top level of the RCF. The new economy lot looks to be about 1/2 to 2/3 the size of the current one. Are they planning structured parking or something? I guess they could keep the existing lots as overflow lots?

They should have three price points of parking. Sort of like they do at BWI. Have the main garage next to terminal be the most expensive. Then have a secondary garage next to the RCF that would still be covered, but not as expensive and accessible via APM. Then keep the current surface long term lots as economy and run the APM out to a them and turn one of them into employee lot. Then you can get rid of all the buses except some that might circulate the economy lots.

Too bad they can't bring the APM closer to the main terminal.

A major driver of the APM is to remove the cost of bussing for the economy lots and the rental car facility. I really really really doubt the current economy lots stay.

The APM station will be as close as it can practically get. You will just need to walk across the roadway to get into the terminal.
I think there will be a bunch of public surface lots around the control tower that will be available. The terminal garage itself it’s 50% larger than Whats at B and C today iirc.

I wonder if they could add a new airport hotel where they propose the economy parking lot station.

Still looks like a tight fit to make all that surface parking. KCI's current lots would get pretty full during peak times. I guess if they needed to add capacity they could always add a garage to the area to keep it compact, but maybe it's not needed.

I never parked in the garages at KCI. Too expensive. Same with BWI. I always use the economy lots or maybe the daily garage if weather will be bad. I guess more people will be using the terminal garage though with the new terminal.

It would be nice if KCI had a nice hotel on site. I don't think the Marriott is very nice anymore and it may as well be on I-29 somewhere since it's not easy to get to.

normalthings wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:30 pm There is a map of the proposed system somewhere around here or the city website.

My hope is that any APM to the CONRAC allows for a future T2 on the terminal D site.

Why D? I assumed B since you would be able to connect the headhouse.

That's a pretty hefty hike from the far reaches of the economy lot to the APM stop. Seems like you'd need shuttles within the lot.

shinatoo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:55 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:30 pm There is a map of the proposed system somewhere around here or the city website.

My hope is that any APM to the CONRAC allows for a future T2 on the terminal D site.

Why D? I assumed B since you would be able to connect the headhouse.

B is where terminal expansion will take place

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:19 pm

shinatoo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:55 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:30 pm There is a map of the proposed system somewhere around here or the city website.

My hope is that any APM to the CONRAC allows for a future T2 on the terminal D site.

Why D? I assumed B since you would be able to connect the headhouse.

B is where terminal expansion will take place

They designed the current building to be expanded onto first by three gates. Logically, that would be on the old Terminal A site. B is way more than three gates away

Ok, the expansion may reach where the outside wall is on B today

https://www.buildkci.com/wp-content/upl ... educed.pdf

page 12 and 13 shows the bottom arm being expanded

I would expect the first big expansion makes a turn and goes around terminal B garage with more gates since it's being maintained. they could add a second entry off that garage and have one giant common secured area behind two entrances


this has a concept but you can see how that arm could be expanded to go past the B garage and make a slight turn and grow the space by a further 6 gates or so

39 to 48 would be a big increase in size

https://jimmycsays.com/2017/05/15/maybe ... -we-do-it/

There is an up to 50 gate option is an expansion continuing to the south along that concourse. Terminal B garage will come down if they need to expand past 42 gates. A head house expansion would also be required which is why you can’t place a hotel there today.

You want to be able to use both sides of a concourse so B garage would have to come down and be paved/built over.

^Do you know if the expansion is for a separate terminal or would be considered expanding same terminal?

earthling wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:52 pm ^Do you know if the expansion is for a separate terminal or would be considered expanding same terminal?

Same terminal, expanded concourse and head house. After 50 or so, we would need a second terminal. I like the idea of Terminal D but that is now going to be an APM maintenance facility from the look of things

That APM map shows you could fit around 14 more gates onto the new terminal. No one has a firm answer because no serious study has been conducted. 50 is just a round number that got picked

Forty two gates might be OK for a while given more efficient management of gate usage and smaller airlines sharing gates. I wonder at what point passenger traffic would trigger a need for over 42, over 12 million/year?

earthling wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:04 pm Forty two gates might be OK for a while given more efficient management of gate usage and smaller airlines sharing gates. I wonder at what point passenger traffic would trigger a need for over 42, over 12 million/year?

IIRC during the campaign is was said that 30-34 gates are leased and thats with traffic over 12 million year pre covid. I think Frontier and Allegiant are the only airlines who aren’t signatory at old KCI.

I think 42 + will be driven either by a sudden rise in connecting traffic once the terminal opens or 30+ years of growth in 2050.

^That's more efficient than I expected if the case. Terminal may not need more gates unless scoring a hub or starting up a new local hub similar to Vanguard days. Doesn't seem likely KC will exceed 12M traffic w/out being a hub (or locally based airline). But yeah, by 2050 probably otherwise.

earthling wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:50 pm ^That's more efficient than I expected if the case. Terminal may not need more gates unless scoring a hub or starting up a new local hub similar to Vanguard days. Doesn't seem likely KC will exceed 12M traffic w/out being a hub (or locally based airline). But yeah, by 2050 probably otherwise.

STL added over 3 million annual passengers from 2010 to 2019, much of it connecting traffic. If we can pull Southwest away from STL, I can see us going to 42 or 42+ pretty quickly.

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:05 pm

earthling wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:50 pm ^That's more efficient than I expected if the case. Terminal may not need more gates unless scoring a hub or starting up a new local hub similar to Vanguard days. Doesn't seem likely KC will exceed 12M traffic w/out being a hub (or locally based airline). But yeah, by 2050 probably otherwise.

STL added over 3 million annual passengers from 2010 to 2019, much of it connecting traffic. If we can pull Southwest away from STL, I can see us going to 42 or 42+ pretty quickly.

The problem for MO is we really have to fuck STL for this to happen. I can't see any way other than eating it.

ToDactivist wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:20 pm As a visitor to MCI - should be KCI? - does anyone know whether we can expect an automated tram to rental cars or is it overlooked that we have to take the randomly-timed, crowded and slow busses? Very old school transit and even more reason to embrace Uber if so.

Kind of late response but even without an APM, the bus situation for the new terminal will be much more efficient for rental car facility and economy lots. There will be one central area to grab the bus versus 15 starts/stops and combined drop off / pickup at same stops.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:25 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:05 pm

earthling wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:50 pm ^That's more efficient than I expected if the case. Terminal may not need more gates unless scoring a hub or starting up a new local hub similar to Vanguard days. Doesn't seem likely KC will exceed 12M traffic w/out being a hub (or locally based airline). But yeah, by 2050 probably otherwise.

STL added over 3 million annual passengers from 2010 to 2019, much of it connecting traffic. If we can pull Southwest away from STL, I can see us going to 42 or 42+ pretty quickly.

The problem for MO is we really have to fuck STL for this to happen. I can't see any way other than eating it.

It’s either us or Nashville that will. Only a matter of time. STL had no problem doing it to us before……

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:53 pm

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:25 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:05 pm

STL added over 3 million annual passengers from 2010 to 2019, much of it connecting traffic. If we can pull Southwest away from STL, I can see us going to 42 or 42+ pretty quickly.

The problem for MO is we really have to fuck STL for this to happen. I can't see any way other than eating it.

It’s either us or Nashville that will. Only a matter of time. STL had no problem doing it to us before……

Honestly this. On top of the fact that we’re a more logical connecting airport for most airlines, considering we’re the largest metro that is centralized to the US.