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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:56 pm
by DColeKC
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:47 pm
Cratedigger wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:37 pm
I don't know if EV comes back, but I would feel reasonably confident that the Royals end up in JaxCo.
I wouldn't say the same about the Chiefs.
Maybe someone can explain to me why a state-of-the-art Kansas-side Chiefs stadium that could potentially bring a Super Bowl without cost to Jackson County would be so much worse than the fresh paint and drapes proposal that we have now?
Royals don't make sense anywhere else but downtown. That's why I don't know why we feel we have to shower them with money to do what's best for them.
Because we have one of the most historical stadiums that has aged well in comparison to those who have been torn down over the years. The idea of building a new flashy, modern stadium and abandoning something as Iconic at Arrowhead to maybe, possibly get one Super Bowl is crazy.
The issue with the K is it's location, Arrowhead doesn't have the same problem.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:01 pm
by Highlander
Cratedigger wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:37 pm
I don't know if EV comes back, but I would feel reasonably confident that the Royals end up in JaxCo.
I wouldn't say the same about the Chiefs.
Why Jackson County? I don't think a non-urban Jackson County park does what the Royals feel like they need. Given the issues with East Village, I don't see many other options if the Crossroads vote fails other than waiting, educating and trying again (and perhaps acquire some of the land in advance). The Clay County site still has in my opinion a lot of hair - no streetcar, not in walking distance of downtown..... but probably works better than anything remaining in Jackson County.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:23 pm
by beautyfromashes
DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:56 pm
Because we have one of the most historical stadiums that has aged well in comparison to those who have been torn down over the years. The idea of building a new flashy, modern stadium and abandoning something as Iconic at Arrowhead to maybe, possibly get one Super Bowl is crazy.
The issue with the K is it's location, Arrowhead doesn't have the same problem.
Yeah, I remember people saying the same thing about the K during the last election and it didn't even last the lease.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:26 pm
by beautyfromashes
Highlander wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:01 pm
Why Jackson County? I don't think a non-urban Jackson County park does what the Royals feel like they need. Given the issues with East Village, I don't see many other options if the Crossroads vote fails other than waiting, educating and trying again (and perhaps acquire some of the land in advance). The Clay County site still has in my opinion a lot of hair - no streetcar, not in walking distance of downtown..... but probably works better than anything remaining in Jackson County.
I'd agree with this. This election was so poorly done and, if it fails, it will be by a small amount. They'll either go scorched Earth and start tearing down the Crossroads builidngs to force the hand of voters or just better the deal to push it over the finish line. Clay County is a red herring. They want to be downtown because that's where they can make the most return.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:58 pm
by Link2
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:26 pm
Highlander wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:01 pm
Why Jackson County? I don't think a non-urban Jackson County park does what the Royals feel like they need. Given the issues with East Village, I don't see many other options if the Crossroads vote fails other than waiting, educating and trying again (and perhaps acquire some of the land in advance). The Clay County site still has in my opinion a lot of hair - no streetcar, not in walking distance of downtown..... but probably works better than anything remaining in Jackson County.
I'd agree with this. This election was so poorly done and, if it fails, it will be by a small amount. They'll either go scorched Earth and start tearing down the Crossroads builidngs to force the hand of voters or just better the deal to push it over the finish line. Clay County is a red herring. They want to be downtown because that's where they can make the most return.
There are no guarantees the Royals come back to the table in any meaningful way if this vote fails. At least two destinations seeking Major League Baseball have already reached out to the Royals. If the offer is right, they could take it.
Chiefs won't leave the KC market of course, but the likelihood of a move to Kansas increases significantly. Multiple sites have been/continue to be discussed.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:14 pm
by beautyfromashes
Link2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:58 pm
There are no guarantees the Royals come back to the table in any meaningful way if this vote fails. At least two destinations seeking Major League Baseball have already reached out to the Royals. If the offer is right, they could take it.
Zero percent chance. Talked about on here ad nauseum, Royals will never leave the metro.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:15 pm
by DaveKCMO
No one has made a clear case why East Village was discarded after years of contemplation, other than "too expensive" or "MoDOT/feds don't like it". Not saying I don't believe it because I know the complexity of those players, but the opacity here is beyond frustrating. And the dismissiveness about the pivot doesn't help at all.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:15 pm
by KCPowercat
Sounds like the city leadership is standing up to closing Oak street. Additionally the Mayor now pushing back on any wholesale demo and "development" east of Oak.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:21 pm
by DaveKCMO
Supposed announcement coming soon walking back the Oak Street closure, and possibly some change in direction with ancillary development. Crossroads has pushed hard on both, after the small business support of course.
Ancillary development should err on the side of adaptive reuse -- a Crossroads hallmark -- rather than total site demolition. And Oak simply should not close.
Both are easy wins for a team that desperately need them.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:24 pm
by Chris Stritzel
My opinion on development east of Oak is that you can demolish everything north of the U-Haul building on Locust as well as the building at 1500 Oak and the newer building at 1620 Locust. Those sites are large enough for some new buildings. Vacate 16th between Oak and Locust. The small gaps on Oak, plus the land created by the vacation of 16th, can then be filled in with smaller buildings. Doing so, you can shift some of the small businesses from Grand over to Oak and then everyone's happy.
Keep Oak open, but make it strictly one-lane each way with no on-street parking. Close it on game days to create a nice pedestrian experience while forcing Grand to remain open. It's a good trade off and is how I would've done this plan from the get-go. It's common sense stuff that also makes it easier for the Royals to sell buildings off in the future if they wanted to. Could also mean less money to spend on development.
We'll see if anything comes out. Just 1 week left to go until the vote. Not much time to get something out there unless you release it tomorrow morning.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:29 pm
by KCPowercat
DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:21 pm
Supposed announcement coming soon walking back the Oak Street closure, and possibly some change in direction with ancillary development. Crossroads has pushed hard on both, after the small business support of course.
Ancillary development should err on the side of adaptive reuse -- a Crossroads hallmark -- rather than total site demolition. And Oak simply should not close.
Both are easy wins for a team that desperately need them.
Great news. Thanks to the CCA for pushing for better.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:30 pm
by Link2
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:14 pm
Link2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:58 pm
There are no guarantees the Royals come back to the table in any meaningful way if this vote fails. At least two destinations seeking Major League Baseball have already reached out to the Royals. If the offer is right, they could take it.
Zero percent chance. Talked about on here ad nauseum, Royals will never leave the metro.
"Talked about on here ad nauseum" means nothing. I've been involved with the project for well over a year now. These calls took place recently.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:31 pm
by Link2
Link2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:30 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:14 pm
Link2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:58 pm
There are no guarantees the Royals come back to the table in any meaningful way if this vote fails. At least two destinations seeking Major League Baseball have already reached out to the Royals. If the offer is right, they could take it.
Zero percent chance. Talked about on here ad nauseum, Royals will never leave the metro.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:31 pm
by Link2
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:31 pm
by DColeKC
DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:15 pm
No one has made a clear case why East Village was discarded after years of contemplation, other than "too expensive" or "MoDOT/feds don't like it". Not saying I don't believe it because I know the complexity of those players, but the opacity here is beyond frustrating. And the dismissiveness about the pivot doesn't help at all.
Complete re-build of the loop.
Proximity to federal property.
Doesn't help existing tax incentivized projects and could in fact hurt them. Yes, I'm talking about PNL.
Doesn't take advantage of existing infrastructure built over the last 15 years like the EC site does.
Keeping Oak open in some form is a reasonable ask. Forcing the team to reuse existing buildings and expecting them to be able to generate meaningful revenue that they can funnel back into the team is a joke. I can understand adaptive reuse applying to a few buildings at most.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:35 pm
by beautyfromashes
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:15 pm
Sounds like the city leadership is standing up to closing Oak street. Additionally the Mayor now pushing back on any wholesale demo and "development" east of Oak.
This is a good move and would push me closer to a yes vote. This is why you push back. An announcement from the city on plans for East Village would likely push me over the line for a yes vote.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:37 pm
by KCPowercat
DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:31 pm
DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:15 pm
No one has made a clear case why East Village was discarded after years of contemplation, other than "too expensive" or "MoDOT/feds don't like it". Not saying I don't believe it because I know the complexity of those players, but the opacity here is beyond frustrating. And the dismissiveness about the pivot doesn't help at all.
I can understand adaptive reuse applying to a few buildings at most.
I am not privy to the extent of this but I'd say it's pretty certain they aren't asking for every 1 story building to be reused, rather substaintial structures, like, I don't know, the Uhaul building
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:38 pm
by KCPowercat
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:35 pm
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:15 pm
Sounds like the city leadership is standing up to closing Oak street. Additionally the Mayor now pushing back on any wholesale demo and "development" east of Oak.
This is a good move and would push me closer to a yes vote. This is why you push back. An announcement from the city on plans for East Village would likely push me over the line for a yes vote.
Exactly. This is why now was the time, it wasn't "too early" at all.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:31 pm
by Highlander
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:14 pm
Link2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:58 pm
There are no guarantees the Royals come back to the table in any meaningful way if this vote fails. At least two destinations seeking Major League Baseball have already reached out to the Royals. If the offer is right, they could take it.
Zero percent chance. Talked about on here ad nauseum, Royals will never leave the metro.
It's anything but a zero percent chance. Royals are the third smallest media market in the second smallest metro in baseball. There are far more lucrative places the owners could take the franchise and they will do just that if the franchise becomes a drain on their resources. In fact, the only argument that would give me pause to funding the stadium is the real possibility that the Royals would exit KC in the next 10-30 years, even with a new stadium. Sherman is not a spring chicken.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:36 pm
by DColeKC
I'm seeing about 80% negative (no) support online, but the opposition is always the loudest group. It's going to be very tight.
Can we talk about the opposition leader for a minute? She continues to swing voters towards yes with her daily rants. Let's look at her latest post where she at one moment talks about Matt Abbot "slandering" her, then goes on to slander him which she has done to just about anyone openly in support.
She also keeps implying that Matt Abbots property is "more valuable" because of her business and her lease. Does she not realize that in this case, that's not accurate? He would get the same money with far less hassle with an empty building. Her business from a financial perspective means nothing to the Royals. She also pretends we don't live in a capitalist society. Did she ever really think Matt risked his own money buying up buildings all these years to do anything other than make money? His pay day is here and she's out of luck.
"They've got silent since I said I won't speak to him without my lawyer".... well no shit!
Sorry KCP, I'm just trying to keep you in the loop since your social media is all butterflies and rainbows.
(please note this is a joke)
