KCRag Forum

Any event would be more pleasant in a park setting versus grand. I totally get events like fan fest on grand.

I couldn't care less about cars although the city needs to do better and signing when grand is closed. All the bus routes for me is more than a minor inconvenience. This drives the point though that minor is relative. To you cordish priorities are number 1
That's fine.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:06 pm Any event would be more pleasant in a park setting versus grand. I totally get events like fan fest on grand.

I couldn't care less about cars although the city needs to do better and signing when grand is closed. All the bus routes for me is more than a minor inconvenience. This drives the point though that minor is relative. To you cordish priorities are number 1
That's fine.

Honestly my #1 priority is the overall downtown experience. I can understand why it would seem to make sense that events in grand could be better off in a park but it defeats the purpose of said events. Cordish spends the money to put on these events to provide their tenants with traffic and dollars spent. If you have drinks, entertainment and food all in the park, there’s no reason to set foot inside a district tenants space. It’s similar to how PNL saw vertically no traffic from First Friday’s back when it was at its peak.

It’s unfortunate that walnut isn’t larger and that H&R are notoriously hard to work with.

How much is the city still paying for P&L bonds?

chaglang wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:30 pm How much is the city still paying for P&L bonds?

Anywhere from 5-14 million yearly. This year won't be pretty with covid.

I know it's easy to get into the city bond/tax revenue debate but I also push back with how many intangibles there are. What's a redeveloped downtown worth to a city? Sprint and PNL kick started the downtown revitalization.

It will be a lifelong debate for sure!

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:27 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:06 pm Any event would be more pleasant in a park setting versus grand. I totally get events like fan fest on grand.

I couldn't care less about cars although the city needs to do better and signing when grand is closed. All the bus routes for me is more than a minor inconvenience. This drives the point though that minor is relative. To you cordish priorities are number 1
That's fine.

Honestly my #1 priority is the overall downtown experience. I can understand why it would seem to make sense that events in grand could be better off in a park but it defeats the purpose of said events.

These two sentences back to back are contradictory. If priority is the experience then let's go with what's best for the experience.

Cordish spends the money to put on these events to provide their tenants with traffic and dollars spent. If you have drinks, entertainment and food all in the park, there’s no reason to set foot inside a district tenants space. It’s similar to how PNL saw vertically no traffic from First Friday’s back when it was at its peak.

Ff is a lot different than having an event on this new free space. That would also be very close to feed these businesses.

It’s unfortunate that walnut isn’t larger and that H&R are notoriously hard to work with.

Cordish could have easily made walnut wider through the district.

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:28 pm

Eon Blue wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:59 pm If we can get a concrete confirmation that the addition of this loop cap would reduce closures of Grand, I'd be more amenable to converting Walnut to a pedestrian and bike-only path through the park (and maybe farther).

I have not heard this and will not believe it until it is codified in ordinance.

Yeah, I was merely musing and remain skeptical.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:38 pm If Cordish wants to pay for it all then they can do what they wish with it but if city funds are also used they can't just do what they please with it. That's my stance.

Agree if 100% paid by Cordish but if partly/mostly paid by public then Cordish should only get a private area that represents around the % they contributed. A bit higher % would be acceptable for contributing to allowing it to happen, especially if it won't happen w/out their help.

earthling wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:03 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:38 pm If Cordish wants to pay for it all then they can do what they wish with it but if city funds are also used they can't just do what they please with it. That's my stance.

Agree if 100% paid by Cordish but if partly/mostly paid by public then Cordish should only get a private area that represents around the % they contributed. A bit higher % would be acceptable for contributing to allowing it to happen, especially if it won't happen w/out their help.

Sounded like Cordish is going to pay for 30-40%.

Doesn't look like anyone pointed this out. Loews is showing a covered skywalk headed north over the park to what appears to be an elevator shaft. Looks like it would connect to the existing tube that leads in from the convention center

Yeah, because you'd never expect a visitor to navigate to the park at street level because it sucks. The city really missed an opportunity to fix the Baltimore and Truman intersection to make it easy to walk to P&L from the new hotel.

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:29 pm Doesn't look like anyone pointed this out. Loews is showing a covered skywalk headed north over the park to what appears to be an elevator shaft. Looks like it would connect to the existing tube that leads in from the convention center

It's years out of date. Look at the wraparound balcony/overhang on the NE corner of the hotel that wasn't built.

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:53 pm Yeah, because you'd never expect a visitor to navigate to the park at street level because it sucks. The city really missed an opportunity to fix the Baltimore and Truman intersection to make it easy to walk to P&L from the new hotel.

Not to mention the building itself is laid out poorly for this. That Baltimore entrance closes at 10pm I think the sign says. I assume you can get in with your key but I don't know for sure.

flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:28 am

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:29 pm Doesn't look like anyone pointed this out. Loews is showing a covered skywalk headed north over the park to what appears to be an elevator shaft. Looks like it would connect to the existing tube that leads in from the convention center

It's years out of date. Look at the wraparound balcony/overhang on the NE corner of the hotel that wasn't built.

I'm pretty sure that was built? balcony level is the outdoor bar patio and below it is the hotel fitness center

interesting this shows a cap all the way up to Wyandotte, yes? I thought they would stop just West of Main, where Baltimore starts to avoid dealing with the elevation change. I could be wrong on that.

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:02 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:28 am

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:29 pm Doesn't look like anyone pointed this out. Loews is showing a covered skywalk headed north over the park to what appears to be an elevator shaft. Looks like it would connect to the existing tube that leads in from the convention center

It's years out of date. Look at the wraparound balcony/overhang on the NE corner of the hotel that wasn't built.

I'm pretty sure that was built? balcony level is the outdoor bar patio and below it is the hotel fitness center

It was built only on the north side and this shows it mostly on the east side. Also, it was inset in to the building, it doesn't stick out at all.

There's an entire thread worth of photos to go back and refer to.

interestingly, the image is from October. So the buildings aren't meant to be exact matches. They probably dropped a shape they had on hand into it. Three Light looks too tall for the perspective, like it's a 50 story tower.

here's the project page
https://www.ojb.com/project/kansas-city-deck-park

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:29 pm



Doesn't look like anyone pointed this out. Loews is showing a covered skywalk headed north over the park to what appears to be an elevator shaft. Looks like it would connect to the existing tube that leads in from the convention center

Why does everybody hate Walnut?

It's got to stay open to traffic. Close it for special events okay, but it's got to stay a public street.

Also the crisscross paths are just absolute shit design. People want to walk, and they'd love to walk through greenspace, but they want to walk where they're going generally speaking, and the odds of it being along a fucking helix is quite unlikely. JUST GIVE ME A STRAIGHT FUCKING PATH.

ahem. merry christmas to all.

smh wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:41 am Also the crisscross paths are just absolute shit design. People want to walk, and they'd love to walk through greenspace, but they want to walk where they're going generally speaking, and the odds of it being along a fucking helix is quite unlikely. JUST GIVE ME A STRAIGHT FUCKING PATH.

ahem. merry christmas to all.

Isn't that the point of the sidewalks that line the park?

Make it all grass and then make demand paths. Let the public decide where the paths need to go.

How that works is you set aside the budget for the sidewalks, put down grass, wait for people to wear paths in the grass and then pave them.

Obviusly there are a lot of caveats to this and it needs to be managed with logic and diligence, but it makes more sense then having a bunch of unused random paths looping around. I think the first time i heard about this was a new Quad that they built at Stanford. Started with no sidewalks. By the next summer the students had worn a buch of paths in the grass between buidings and thats where they put down the pavement.

Also, stop designing everything to look good in plan view. we live on the ground, not in the sky.