KCRag Forum

flyingember wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:53 am

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:14 pm How are you going to get to Troost from UMKC without going to 63rd via Brookside Blvd or Country Club ROW

You mimic the Riverfront line extension. The train travels south on Brookside to UMKC stop and doubles back and turns to MLK

This provides a stop at Rockhill, 4 blocks away. It's nicely positioned for northern UMKC and the two office buildings there and the first Troost stop can be right at Rockhurst at 53rd. End no closer than 63rd/Prospect. This ending provides a transfer point for busses on US 71 and connects to Prospect MAX and Troost MAX directly to midtown with one transfer, something that doesn't exist today. The ridership gains for the streetcar could be notable.

3.3 miles of track and it puts most of it on the east side.

How is that mimicking the riverfront extension in anyway? Streetcar will go straight from US to RF, no switching directions or cabs.

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:25 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:53 am

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:14 pm How are you going to get to Troost from UMKC without going to 63rd via Brookside Blvd or Country Club ROW

You mimic the Riverfront line extension. The train travels south on Brookside to UMKC stop and doubles back and turns to MLK

This provides a stop at Rockhill, 4 blocks away. It's nicely positioned for northern UMKC and the two office buildings there and the first Troost stop can be right at Rockhurst at 53rd. End no closer than 63rd/Prospect. This ending provides a transfer point for busses on US 71 and connects to Prospect MAX and Troost MAX directly to midtown with one transfer, something that doesn't exist today. The ridership gains for the streetcar could be notable.

3.3 miles of track and it puts most of it on the east side.

How is that mimicking the riverfront extension in anyway? Streetcar will go straight from US to RF, no switching directions or cabs.

I was thinking it over and decided there was a better way. The stop is further south than I remembered

I like pink, but if the slope on 51st can be followed I like blue too.

Regardless, pink makes more sense than going down to 55th or 63rd in terms of ridership. The stop at Rockhill/MLK connecting to two office buildings and the provides real value to the system.

There's a UMKC Master Plan we have to contend with: https://www.umkc.edu/chancellor/docs/um ... _proof.pdf

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:45 am There's a UMKC Master Plan we have to contend with: https://www.umkc.edu/chancellor/docs/um ... _proof.pdf

Doesn't show them building anything over current streets

It makes more sense to double back along existing track then cut over on MLK, then right on Troost down to 63rd st and supplementing TroostMax. Any study would need to determine if that woudl be perferrable over the Trolley Trail to Brookside that was previously evaluated in NextRail. Note, it didn't score that great there.

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:05 am

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:45 am There's a UMKC Master Plan we have to contend with: https://www.umkc.edu/chancellor/docs/um ... _proof.pdf

Doesn't show them building anything over current streets

51st is partially ped only today and will be entirely ped in the future.

52nd & 53rd could work if they want to get creative with the parking lot for the School of Education

Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:23 am 52nd & 53rd could work if they want to get creative with the parking lot for the School of Education

^looks like they plan on changing the street layout (and removing the School of Education building) which could accommodate this

That's not bad. If this route would get built I wouldn't fight over any of those three ideas getting built.

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:08 am It makes more sense to double back along existing track then cut over on MLK, then right on Troost down to 63rd st and supplementing TroostMax. Any study would need to determine if that woudl be perferrable over the Trolley Trail to Brookside that was previously evaluated in NextRail. Note, it didn't score that great there.

Or you could loop around 51st and back up Oak, then there are three different paths you can take across to Troost.

1. Oak to MLK and across (maybe up part of Rockhill).
2. Oak to 50th and straight across to Troost. There are currently no buildings blocking this route, even if you come north out of the UMKC stop and take a hard right since the Oak Tower has been demolished. This would also drop you right in front of the student union.
3. Oak to 50t, up Cherry and on to MLK.

It's probably doable. But I'm sure it's a low priority. Would rather see a north-south spine all the way along Troost from Independence Ave to 63rd. But I would even rank Prospect higher than Troost.

I live very close to that pink route, I think it would be really hard to do it because Oak is only a single lane street with a bunch of stop signs. When it’s rush hour, it gets extremely backed up there. It’s probably better to go somewhere where there’s more than one lane.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:19 am I live very close to that pink route, I think it would be really hard to do it because Oak is only a single lane street with a bunch of stop signs. When it’s rush hour, it gets extremely backed up there. It’s probably better to go somewhere where there’s more than one lane.

Complaining there's too many cars, we can't build transit and take them off the road is strange.

Just go back to NextRail scoring to see what gets built when. None of the fundamentals have changed for the corridors.

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:35 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:19 am I live very close to that pink route, I think it would be really hard to do it because Oak is only a single lane street with a bunch of stop signs. When it’s rush hour, it gets extremely backed up there. It’s probably better to go somewhere where there’s more than one lane.

Complaining there's too many cars, we can't build transit and take them off the road is strange.

I get that you like to look for things to attack about, but I've never complained there's too many cars. The route is just simply too slow...take it from someone who uses it everyday the last 6 years.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:16 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:35 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:19 am I live very close to that pink route, I think it would be really hard to do it because Oak is only a single lane street with a bunch of stop signs. When it’s rush hour, it gets extremely backed up there. It’s probably better to go somewhere where there’s more than one lane.

Complaining there's too many cars, we can't build transit and take them off the road is strange.

I get that you like to look for things to attack about, but I've never complained there's too many cars. The route is just simply too slow...take it from someone who uses it everyday the last 6 years.

And the solution is to keep the cars on it?

You don't want to make decisions based on peak-hour volume but for the money the traffic engineers sank into that area in the 90's, it's a mess. SB Oak is often backed up from 51st to Volker. WB Volker is often backed up between Brookside and Oak. EB Volker is often backed up between Rockhill and Oak. Even if everyone is like, 'who cares about cars', a streetcar on that pink line will be sitting in the same mess.

The due dilligence was already done when NextRail study was completed and the Trolly Trail was deemed the most feasible. Anyways just sharing this for no particular reason that I saw on Twitter the Streetcar account responded to. Cool yes, but more development potential elsewhere.

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:04 pm The due dilligence was already done when NextRail study was completed and the Trolly Trail was deemed the most feasible. Anyways just sharing this for no particular reason that I saw on Twitter the Streetcar account responded to. Cool yes, but more development potential elsewhere.

They *only* studied the Trolley Trail in 2014. It was a comparison between pre-chosen routes, not a study of which route is best to go south of UMKC.
It would be prudent to do a comparison study of a few notable options, such as taking Cleaver to Troost, picking one route across UMKC itself, etc.

The Trolley Trail was near the bottom of the list for feasibility of the 2014 routes
https://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uplo ... erview.pdf
Document page 9

chaglang wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:42 pm You don't want to make decisions based on peak-hour volume but for the money the traffic engineers sank into that area in the 90's, it's a mess. SB Oak is often backed up from 51st to Volker. WB Volker is often backed up between Brookside and Oak. EB Volker is often backed up between Rockhill and Oak. Even if everyone is like, 'who cares about cars', a streetcar on that pink line will be sitting in the same mess.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say about Oak. The worst part is that it's littered with stop signs.

Given the pedestrian flow across Oak from UMKC, the stop signs make a ton of sense. I just try to avoid the street when driving. But a streetcar there wouldn't have that ability.